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i loooove this. Exceptional smooth tone, fluid fast playing, great note choices, consistently lyrical lines/melodies within the solo.
Originally Posted by Sleeko
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10-17-2023 09:10 AM
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Russell Malone. Great player, great tone, but that quick quivering vibrato makes me nuts.
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In grad school, I wanted to loan my Classical guitar teacher some Lenny Breau and Johnny Smith albums to hear what he thought of them. He said I could bring them in, but he said if it was anything like the Pass Virtuoso albums, I could shove them where the sun don't shine. Originally Posted by gitman
He then let loose with a slew of expletives that had me shaking in my shoes. To this day I've never heard such unbridled hate for the sound and playing of a guitarist in my life. I never brought in the Breau and Smith albums for him.
I did manage to interest him in Van Eps' work.
Farlow's sound varied from album to album, and even from track to track on some of his records. Same thing with Wes.
I went to see Pat
Martino at The Bottom Line, and his sound was fine when playing in the group, but when he played solo cadenzas, his sound was the most hollow dead sound I ever heard. It sounded like someone playing heavy gauge strings with a 0.20 pick. I turned around and said to my friends, "Why is he sounding like that? This is Pat Martino! He can't sound like that!"
They just said, "Well, that's Pat."
At that age, I couldn't accept that.
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A lot of people who aren't 1/10th the player Joe Pass was like to pick on the tone of those albums. But Virtuoso was a bomb dropped in the playground of jazz guitarists who couldn't imagine walking bass, comping, and bebop style improvisation all on the fly on solo guitar. If Joe hadn't released that album, whatever the problems with the tone, we'd all be drastically poorer. That classical teacher just showed why people generally don't like classical musicians. That can't appreciate what does not fit their mould. Originally Posted by sgcim
In grad school, I wanted to loan my Classical guitar teacher some Lenny Breau and Johnny Smith albums to hear what he thought of them. He said I could bring them in, but he said if it was anything like the Pass Virtuoso albums, I could shove them where the sun don't shine.
He then let loose with a slew of expletives that had me shaking in my shoes. To this day I've never heard such unbridled hate for the sound and playing of a guitarist in my life. I never brought in the Breau and Smith albums for him.
I did manage to interest him in Van Eps' work.
Farlow's sound varied from album to album, and even from track to track on some of his records. Same thing with Wes.
I went to see Pat
Martino at The Bottom Line, and his sound was fine when playing in the group, but when he played solo cadenzas, his sound was the most hollow dead sound I ever heard. It sounded like someone playing heavy gauge strings with a 0.20 pick. I turned around and said to my friends, "Why is he sounding like that? This is Pat Martino! He can't sound like that!"
They just said, "Well, that's Pat."
At that age, I couldn't accept that.
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Or maybe they just think that those albums would be even better if the tone was more like his earlier group albums? Originally Posted by lawson-stone
A bit harsh on classical musicians?
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Maybe too harsh, agreed. But I don't hear "even better" from people claiming to just put Joe Pass' Virtuoso "where the sun don't shine." Talk about harsh, and even ignorant... When you look at the totality of the Virtuoso sessions, including especially the 2 disk Virtuoso 4, it's breathtaking playing. Anybody who can't listen past the recording problems is missing a vital expression of musical talent. Originally Posted by Irishmuso
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And yet, this is reality. I loved Joe Pass live, and I got to see him many times and even played a tune with him and a combo at a local college. But Virtuoso? I can grasp where the style might not be loved by some folks. As for the tone, well…. While I listen to the old Charlie Parker recordings, no one can tell me the tone is very pleasurable. The drums in particular sound like garbage. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
IMO a smart person can always differentiate between his own tastes, and the quality of a performance (or any product for that matter). In a different arena, I have this issue with upscale restaurant fare. Wife loves the stuff, but while I too enjoy it I have to “taste through the salt” because those chefs always over-season. So it goes.
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Hey man, this was Grad School, I didn't say a word. He did loosen up on the Van Eps stuff, and even let me write an arr. of Stolen Moments for a CG Guitar Ensemble Concert that we did. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
I let him keep the arrangement, too, but when he asked for my solo guitar arr. of it, I kept on making excuses till graduation day.I would've sold out JP, anybody for that diploma...
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Makes it sound like instant top 40 pop, no matter what they play. The guitarist could be playing Cecil Taylor licks, still the same. Originally Posted by supersoul
I've never understood Stern and his use of the chorus type sound most of the time. He sounds pretty good without chorus on some other folks recordings.
Listen to Stern play with Nelson Faria:
Nelson Faria Convida Mike Stern: Um Café Lá Em Casa (feat. Mike Stern)
Nelson Faria Convida Mike Stern:... | Nelson Faria | High Quality Music Downloads | 7digital Canada
Doesn't help that many players over use the chorus. The government should put a 100 year ban against playing with a chorus pedal!
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I saw Mike Stern at a free outdoor concert in a park here in NYC. I couldn't understand. I tried. But that syrupy over-affected sound ?? I left, there was nothing there for me.
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I can deal with a lot of jazz tones. I thought Metheny's was disagreeable when I heard it back in the day. I can deal with it now. I like Tal's tone, real thuddy. I went and listened to Mike Stern and Ed Bickert because I hadn't listened to them before and I thought it was beautiful playing and cool tone. I might not choose to put it on all the time but thought it was cool. Love Pat tone, Scofield's signature tone is pretty cool.
The tones I can't stand the most would be Julian Lage and Joe Pass. I hate that thin, acoustic-y, overly direct, ping-y, nothing of interest tone.
Obviously Joe's tone varied but here is what I mean. Can't stand that. Fingerstyle I guess, plus other factors.
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I think there's generally a problem with recording of guitar tones. I've seen Stern and Scofield a bunch of times and their tone works live. I'm not sure what's going on technically, but especially Stern's sound never seem to transfer to recorded media where it will sound much smaller, for want of a better word. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
I've seen Lage once, he played the telecaster. Sounded lovely in the room. On recordings I don't think his telecaster sound projects at all, which does make it sound somewhat uninteresting.
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Agree w/this Lawson except the 1/10th part. One needn't be a great football player to be a coach, just like you don't have to be a great player to have an opinion on someone's sound. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Anyway, as I recall his tone on Virtuoso doesn't bother me one bit, it kinda sounded like his 175 was miced acoustically on much of it, though I recall there was a long thread on the subject here some years ago. I haven't listened to it in years but I pulled out the Catch Me lp the other day to reacquaint myself since everyone always raves about it. The Catch Me recording sounds like it was done in several sessions, some on a solid, some on the 175 some on a nylon. I have the subsequent Virtuosos and I wound up w/ 2 copies of the first one. I was in a thrift store maybe 5 yrs ago and saw it laying on the floor in an aisle by itself for .99 so I just bought it again, probably because you hardly ever see hip records like that in thrift stores, it's usually Montovani or the like though I did score a mint copy of Roberta Flack's "First Take" last week for $1.99
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Mic too close to the amp. Originally Posted by Average Joe
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Drugs were better in the 70's and 80's. Originally Posted by supersoul
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Isn't Joe playing a nylon string here? Like on the second record with Ella. Sounds fantastic to me. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
The albums that bug me are the "plugged directly into the board" sounding ones. There, the only thing that makes it listenable is Joe's playing. If it were anybody else maybe even 9/10ths the player I don't think I could.
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not to stray off topic, but that record is wonderful. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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So true, I mainly bought it for "1st time" which is worth the price of admission but the rest is great w name jazz players including Bucky Pizzarelli, Ron Carter, etc Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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That is interesting because I understand George Van Eps from a historical point of view, but to me he did not swing. No sense of real swing or jazz as such. His sound was ok on the guitar but sterile. Originally Posted by sgcim
In grad school, I wanted to loan my Classical guitar teacher some Lenny Breau and Johnny Smith albums to hear what he thought of them. He said I could bring them in, but he said if it was anything like the Pass Virtuoso albums, I could shove them where the sun don't shine.
He then let loose with a slew of expletives that had me shaking in my shoes. To this day I've never heard such unbridled hate for the sound and playing of a guitarist in my life. I never brought in the Breau and Smith albums for him.
I did manage to interest him in Van Eps' work.
Farlow's sound varied from album to album, and even from track to track on some of his records. Same thing with Wes.
I went to see Pat
Martino at The Bottom Line, and his sound was fine when playing in the group, but when he played solo cadenzas, his sound was the most hollow dead sound I ever heard. It sounded like someone playing heavy gauge strings with a 0.20 pick. I turned around and said to my friends, "Why is he sounding like that? This is Pat Martino! He can't sound like that!"
They just said, "Well, that's Pat."
At that age, I couldn't accept that.
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Despite the OP's instructions regarding Joe's tone, many on this thread have cited not caring for his tone. Gosh, how many times do we have to go through this? I worked at Group IV where he did a lot of recording. There were no rookies on the team. Recently, I had some communication with my old boss Angel Ballister who recorded Joe quite a lot. Look on the credits of your vinyl or CD. He worked with Eric Miller who produced. I asked Angel to relate any stories he had and this was his reply: Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
" Joe never worried about equipment whenever I worked with him he left everything at my discretion. I would take Joe direct and live in order to have a choice later and if I was recording Live to two tracks then I would mix both accordingly, Yes Joe was a genius my very first time recording him I remember asking him "Joe how do you want to sound"? and his reply was BIG!! or the most of the funniest was when we were recording live he had been playing for about an hour he looked at me and his producer Eric Miller and said Fuck it I'm Tired of playing the rest was history."
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I think he does, as also on I Remember Charlie Parker. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
My favorite Joe Pass solo album for tone and general musicality is Blues For Fred.
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I'm not too keen on chorus either, but thankfully it has kinda gone out of style, you don't hear it that much now. Probably because it instantly conjures up the '80's. For me at least. Originally Posted by Doug B
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Chorus does a similar thing to delay in that it makes the guitar sound larger and more like a piano in terms of the sonic space it occupies.
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I love all these takes.
"Hey! You! That guy who has millions of recordings out there, tours all the time, has tens of thousands of people copying your licks/transcribing your solos. Yeah you. Your tone sucks!"
Love it.
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Most of them are dead. Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo
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