Least favorite jazz guitar tone

**sgcim** · 10-14-2023, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

I’m imagining in my head it was your top 40 covers band, mostly because I find the idea extremely funny.

(I daresay it wasn’t.)

I've never played in a top 40 covers band.

**sgosnell** · 10-14-2023, 07:56 PM

Metheny. Mike Stern. Schofield. Abercrombie. I've tried rather hard to like Metheny, but I simply cannot listen to his playing. Every time I try, I fail to make it through one tune, and I've tried multiple tunes. Maybe it's a character flaw, but I just can't. The others I don't even try to like. I missed Frank Vignola's Guitar Night for all of June, because Stern was on it every week, and I couldn't listen to it. I tried every week, and failed.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-14-2023, 07:56 PM

Ribot rules, and so does his tone.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-14-2023, 07:59 PM

Ribot killing it again.

**omphalopsychos** · 10-14-2023, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by ccroft

Thanks for breaking down your handle. I've always wondered what it was all about. This made it a lot easier to google. And I discovered Omphalophobia

not quite:

Least favorite jazz guitar tone-img_8007-jpeg

**Litterick** · 10-14-2023, 08:52 PM

Holdsworth

**Sydex** · 10-14-2023, 09:16 PM

Sounding sterile. I’m unsure how to describe it, but that heavy clean tone. It’s almost like the Kenny G equivalent of a sound but on guitar.

**Jim Soloway** · 10-14-2023, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I went through a period i which I didn't like Lenny Breaux's tone. It struck me as sterile. But I've grown into it over time, I have to admit. But Stanley Jordan's sort of "harp like" (?) tone I have never found compelling.

Breau ... Breaux is Zachary. I loved both of their tones.

**coyote-1** · 10-14-2023, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

I want to hear your controversial/iconoclastic positions. Is there a popular jazz player whose tone you really dislike?

I don't mean the poorly tracked sessions of wes and joe pass where their guitars sound super thin. I mean recordings where you feel you disagree with the majority opinion. Curious to hear peoples' thoughts.

I'm sure a lot of people will get upset when you attack their heros so please keep the attitude lighthearted.

I never dug Barney Kessel, not his tone and not his note/chord choices. There’s no question he could play, but his playing and my ears just never got in synch. I found listening to him to quickly get irritating.

**st.bede** · 10-14-2023, 10:19 PM

One thing that makes me happy is knowing that if I use a chorus, other guitarist will become irate… but, the audience will have no idea. Sometimes being a malcontent is its’ own reward.

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-15-2023, 12:33 AM

I'm going to listen to some Ed Bickert.

**John A.** · 10-15-2023, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by bluejaybill

Always a big fan of Pat Martino, but never loved that dark tone of his. My primary guitar teacher was a big Martino guy, they both studied with Dennis Sandole, but I never understood that super dark tone of his. Some of the earlier albums are better.

Yes, they're way better. Check out Exit, El Hombre, East!, We'll Be Together Again. Much brighter tones.

**Christian Miller** · 10-15-2023, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by sgcim

I've never played in a top 40 covers band.

shame. The idea of Marc ribot playing his stylings on ‘play that funky music’ or some such to confused wedding party members is clearly too good to actually exist

**oldane** · 10-15-2023, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by st.bede

When it comes to piano players, they have to settle with the piano offered. To be able to distinguish one from another is about listening to note choices, phrasing, and attack choices.

Partly OT in a guitar context - but anyway:

I agree that note choices, phrasing, attact etc. means more than the inherent tone of the gear. Yet, with pianos there are still differences. Mainly in what one could call the "Steinway" and the "Bösendorfer" sound. The Steinway sound is compact and midrange centered while the Bösendorfer sound is fat and spread. Thus the Bösendorfer pianos (made in Austria) follow a general tradition of central European musical instruments to have a more opulent tone which is also heard in say woodwinds like clarinets and oboes as opposed to the slimmer "French" tone. A favorite pianist of mine, Roland Hanna, said in an interview that he had always considered himself a "Steinway man" - until once when there was nothing but a Bösendorfer to play and he discovered an extra dimension which he came to love (and which IMO goes well with his style). If one wants to hear the Bösendorfer sound, check out Roland Hanna's solo piano album "Swing me no Walses" (it's on both YouTube and Spotify).

Add on trivea:
Oscar Peterson was also a fan of the Bösendorfer and it was written in his concert contracts that a Bösendorfer concert grand tuned at the day of the concert should be at his disposal. He owned two Bösendorfers himself. After his death one of them was bought by and is now owned by trumpeter/pianist Arturo Sandoval.

When you come to think about it, both Roland Hanna, Oscar Peterson and Arturo Sandoval are known for styles that are not sparse or hesitant (though Roland Hanna could be quite lyrical and dreamy at times). Maybe this taste for fullnes of style explains their preference for the fullness of sound of the Bösendorfer pianos.

**bluejaybill** · 10-15-2023, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack

bluejaybill: who was the guitar teacher you referred to? Just asking because my guy sounds like the same fan of Martino, and studied with Sandole. I had a hard time telling him I couldn't listen to PMartino, but I really enjoyed "El Hombre" that my teacher turned me onto. I bought a Johnny Smith after that!

His name was Harry Leahey. A wonderful teacher, and a super player. If memory servers, Vic Juris and him collaborated on a book about his method.

Quite a few players in NE New Jersey studied with Leahey, and a few of them went on to study with Sandole. I was a bit intimidated by Sandole's reputation and never made it down to Philly to study with him. Quite a few well know players did, including Martino and for a short time, Coltrane.

**Sleeko** · 10-15-2023, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Archie

Has to be Tal Farlow. Could you even call it tone?

(His earlier stuff with the 350 was better).

I agree and until I heard an interview where I heard him say that he wanted to sound like a horn I just didn't get it. After that his technique made a little more sense to me. Nobody else really sounded like him and he certainly was one of a kind. But for me I want to sound like a guitar not a horn.

**wintermoon** · 10-15-2023, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sleeko

I agree and until I heard an interview where I heard him say that he wanted to sound like a horn I just didn't get it. After that his technique made a little more sense to me. Nobody else really sounded like him and he certainly was one of a kind. But for me I want to sound like a guitar not a horn.

Pretty sure he meant phrase like a horn, not "sound" like a horn tonally

**Sleeko** · 10-16-2023, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

Pretty sure he meant phrase like a horn, not "sound" like a horn tonally

Well sure. Just going by what he said but I understand.

**supersoul** · 10-16-2023, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by st.bede

One thing that makes me happy is knowing that if I use a chorus, other guitarist will become irate… but, the audience will have no idea. Sometimes being a malcontent is its’ own reward.

I actually like the sound of a chorus pedal in the same way I like the sound of a Leslie, when it's used organically. Turn it on during the head and then turn it off for the rest of the time, something like that. I like how organists play the Leslie, using all the different chorale/vibrato/speeds/brake options as part of the voice of the instrument.

What I don't care for is when the chorus pedal is on ALL the time. Constant chorus makes it syrupy sweet, like too much icing.

**orri** · 10-16-2023, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Webby

Love a lot of the playing, but I hate Pat Methenys tone.

I remember checking out a Pat Meheny album and I ended up turning it off after a few tracks because I despised the guitar tone.
I don't remember the name of the album (it did not have much impact on me obviously) and I browsed a bit now to find it, but didn't.

It was was a muffled guitar tone with the tone knob rolled very much down.

In general I don't like his tone but I can still enjoy his playing and don't feel a need to turn off the music.

**yebdox** · 10-16-2023, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

So, just to be a devils advocate… how much are we advocating that everyone plays with the same, idealised jazz tone (tm)?

Where else in life do we honor sameness? This kind of thread smacks of the classic Milgram experiment. These are our heroes we are talking about. While nothing is sacred and we should follow our own ears and tastes, those can change with experience, plus you might miss out on some great listening and education by not going beyond your initial reaction.

Not that they would really care, but I wonder how any of these artists would want to be approached about their tone choices: outright rejection, or an honest request for an explanation of their intention?

The Fountainhead might prove good reading for some.

**jzucker** · 10-16-2023, 10:54 AM

yikes...

**John A.** · 10-16-2023, 11:12 AM

It seems to me that a lot of the tones people are citing as bad are victims of the recording process and/or stage-sound problems, and/or thing like having to use unfamiliar or unsuitable gear because that's what was provided. I think you can take any of these players and find examples where they come closer to (or actually define) the canonical "good jazz tone." That's different from not liking the ones who have a specific, consistent sound. So, sure, you don't like Sco, or Stern (the usual targets in these discussions), or whoever's consistent concept of how to sound. That's understandable, as are all matters of taste. But the ones who are obviously going for a "jazz" tone and just sometimes don't get there (for various reasons within their control and not), I give them the benefit of the doubt.

**gitman** · 10-17-2023, 05:25 AM

Joe Pass's "Virtuoso" solo records on the Pablo label. I also never cared much for the tone of Farlow, Kessel and Ellis (except when he comps). Wes made a couple of recordings where it is clear that the string action on his guitar was way too low - all I hear is buzz buzz buzz ... THAT cannot be the fault of an engineer , it's the player and how he cares about his instrument.