Jazz Guitar Weight & Artist Names

[Brazenkane]

Hi All!

I have an LGB300 (George Benson) and I sit teaching a lot. I rarely gig these days, too. I've decided that as amazing as the guitar is in sound, build, and playability...as much of a Jazz beast as it is, for me.. it's heavy enough to bother me. Mine weighs in at 8lbs. The weight is distributed mostly directly where the neck joins the body, so my thigh takes the weight. After a few hrs, I'm adjusting it this way and that, etc. I've decided to sell it, simply from my work purposes and based on the weights of what I'm used to playing, I need soemthing lighter. The PM100 comes in a 3.08kgs (6.7lbs). Now THAT is a very light guitar!

Now you might be wondering why somebody would go from a "George Benson" to a "Pat Metheny?" I simply like the top shelf Ibanez guitars. The where CNC meets amazing luthier skills is how like to think of it. Sure I like both of those artists but I wouldn't say that, "I play more like Pat so I need his guitar!" Lol

so I am curious about what you jazz hands think of having an artist name on a guitar and totally unrelated the idea of weight. I know for some people the latter isn't even a consideration, especially if you're a big guy/girl.

Anyways... thoughts?

[John A.]

so I am curious about what you jazz hands think of having an artist name on a guitar and totally unrelated the idea of weight. I know for some people the latter isn't even a consideration, especially if you're a big guy/girl.

Anyways... thoughts?

Whether someone's name is part of the guitar model name or not makes no difference to me. As far as weight goes, I always use a strap with all my guitars, and play with them up fairly high (roughly Joe DiOrio position, if that rings any bells), so even when I'm sitting (I mostly stand) I don't experience any weight or discomfort on my leg/lap. Somewhere north of 8lbs can be tiring on my shoulders if I'm playing for several hours, but not to the point of being an obstacle to playing. Because I am in possession of a front-mounted adipose aerodynamic enhancement device, guitar bulk is a bit more of an issue for me than weight. My hollowbody (16" lower bout x 3-3/8" depth), haven't weighed it) is a little more uncomfortable to wrangle than my strat or semi-hollow, even though it's lighter than both.

[Jim Soloway]

I think that it makes a lot of sense when you're dealing with Ibanez. They have dedicated a lot of their top of the line production to signature models so if you like the Ibanez top level guitars (and a lot of people do), then signature models are very likely to be among your choices.

[Alter]

I wouldn't buy a heavy guitar to begin with..

[Brazenkane]

Whether someone's name is part of the guitar model name or not makes no difference to me. As far as weight goes, I always use a strap with all my guitars, and play with them up fairly high (roughly Joe DiOrio position, if that rings any bells), so even when I'm sitting (I mostly stand) I don't experience any weight or discomfort on my leg/lap. Somewhere north of 8lbs can be tiring on my shoulders if I'm playing for several hours, but not to the point of being an obstacle to playing. Because I am in possession of a front-mounted adipose aerodynamic enhancement device, guitar bulk is a bit more of an issue for me than weight. My hollowbody (16" lower bout x 3-3/8" depth), haven't weighed it) is a little more uncomfortable to wrangle than my strat or semi-hollow, even though it's lighter than both.

Great response!!! Thanks!!

[Brazenkane]

I wouldn't buy a heavy guitar to begin with..

Amen!

[Brazenkane]

I think that it makes a lot of sense when you're dealing with Ibanez. They have dedicated a lot of their top of the line production to signature models so if you like the Ibanez top level guitars (and a lot of people do), then signature models are very likely to be among your choices.

It's truly art what they have achieved in consistency, sound, and playability!

[bluejaybill]

I wouldn't worry about the name. I owned a Les Paul before I even knew who Les was. Soon after I found a 78 of How High the Moon, so then I got it.

The Metheny model looks pretty cool.

[DawgBone]

Hi All!

I have an LGB300 (George Benson) and I sit teaching a lot. I rarely gig these days, too. I've decided that as amazing as the guitar is in sound, build, and playability...as much of a Jazz beast as it is, for me.. it's heavy enough to bother me. Mine weighs in at 8lbs. The weight is distributed mostly directly where the neck joins the body, so my thigh takes the weight. After a few hrs, I'm adjusting it this way and that, etc. I've decided to sell it, simply from my work purposes and based on the weights of what I'm used to playing,

Anyways... thoughts?

You're taking a break and stretching your legs every hour or so between lessons and practice though right?

[Gitterbug]

These things are to an extent subjective. My 175ES 1959 VOS weighs in at 2.86 kg (6.3 lbs). It's light for what it is. A Tal Farlow I had to rescue from wrong hands does 3.48 kg (7.7 lbs). Just 22% more, yet it feels very heavy to me. I take the OP's point, but given the almost cult status of a Tal Farlow, not everybody is sensitive about weight. I am.

[Brazenkane]

You're taking a break and stretching your legs every hour or so between lessons and practice though right?

Dawg, I feel the weight like 5 mins into it. It's not a well distributed weight either. It's predominantly where the neck connects to the body, so it's directly over my thigh. Ugh.

[DawgBone]

Dawg, I feel the weight like 5 mins into it. It's not a well distributed weight either. It's predominantly where the neck connects to the body, so it's directly over my thigh. Ugh.

I gotcha, your femur is bearing the full load. That's no bueno. I only mentioned it cause my current player is in the 8lbs range and standing or sitting I need to change position after a couple hours or it's getting uncomfortable, but not at the level you are dealing with. Shopping for a new is instrument is kind of exciting so best fortunes on the hunt.

[JazzNote]

I regularly gig with a Gibson Johnny Smith, sometimes i'm asked who Johnny Smith is, so i explain. I also own a Lee Ritenour L5, never took it to a gig, but if i did i would hide his signature on the truss rod cover. I much respect Lee, but his name stands also for music i don't really like too much ;-).
As for weigh, i enjoy my L5 CES but take my LeGrand more often to gigs, mainly because it's smaller and of less weigh. I recently acquired a Benedetto Fratello which weighs about 2.54 Kg and enjoy it much, not only because of its great sound, but also because it is so light.

[Brazenkane]

These things are to an extent subjective. My 175ES 1959 VOS weighs in at 2.86 kg (6.3 lbs). It's light for what it is. A Tal Farlow I had to rescue from wrong hands does 3.48 kg (7.7 lbs). Just 22% more, yet it feels very heavy to me. I take the OP's point, but given the almost cult status of a Tal Farlow, not everybody is sensitive about weight. I am.

I was teaching a group yesterday. We got out the digi-scale and weighed the various guitars. Ounces made a significant difference. You could feel it easily, so you're a report of the Farlow Guitar makes 100% sense.

[Brazenkane]

I regularly gig with a Gibson Johnny Smith, sometimes i'm asked who Johnny Smith is, so i explain. I also own a Lee Ritenour L5, never took it to a gig, but if i did i would hide his signature on the truss rod cover. I much respect Lee, but his name stands also for music i don't really like too much ;-).
As for weigh, i enjoy my L5 CES but take my LeGrand more often to gigs, mainly because it's smaller and of less weigh. I recently acquired a Benedetto Fratello which weighs about 2.54 Kg and enjoy it much, not only because of its great sound, but also because it is so light.

Any idea what the GB10s weigh? Many places that tout themselves as "sources" differ on the # itself!

[JazzNote]

Any idea what the GB10s weigh? Many places that tout themselves as "sources" differ on the # itself!

No idea about the GB 10s weigh ...

[Jimmy blue note]

Love the feel of the Ibanez Prestige guitars, the overall feel of the Ibanez necks and bodies. I think they've got great designs executed well and that's why artists' and execution converge on a great feeling instrument and certainly not their name.
But the truth for me is that the weight of a laminate guitar creates bulk that I literally don't resonate with. I had a GB-10 I got when I worked for Ibanez (yes I worked for them so I got to pick and choose any model I wanted) and though that Benson is the stuff of fantasy, what it did for me was provide me with the springboard for what was ideal for me.

Taking the body size, neck profile, and other features I liked, I created an idea of what would have been perfect for me at the time. I didn't find that in an Ibanez, but rather in an Eastman.

Truth be told, I set out to build an acoustic arch top GB10 with 7 strings, and while that was being made I ordered that exact instrument from the builders in China where they made it while I was still building mine.
All this to say, I knew what I wanted, had it built and it was light, responsive, had the sound and feel that I wanted without the bulk and laminate design and construction of Ibanez Fujigen guitars.

I'm not about to recommend the course I took; that's your personal journey. But it's your hands that know what you want and there are options out there. Just for kicks, try out an Eastman solid bodied hand built guitar. I could say the same of a Campellone or Benedetto but Eastmans are much more affordable off the bat, and the quality is 100% handbuilt.
Know what you want and be aware of your options. They're out there and there are many on the forum here who, like me, have found their own niche guitars. No reason to take the weight and shortcomings of a good but not perfect guitar (for you) and every reason to search for something that will allow you (no, will make you want) to play forever.
Love the feel of my guitar. It makes me sad to put it down. And it's certainly not because it's too heavy.

Just suggesting your mate is out there.

[redwater]

I have an Ibanez LGB300 too and yes, it tends to feel a bit heavy. Just like my mid 90s ES175. The wonderful L5ish sounds coming out of it, the 45mm nut width, feedback resistance (and many other small things) makes the LGB one of my favourite Archtop guitars. I owned many Archtop guitars over the years and the LGB300 checks a lot of boxes for me.
So I bought a 12cm width, heavily padded (Bass)strap for it, hung it up very high (Joe Diorio was mentioned earlier in this thread) and the problem with back and neck pain disapeared. Some neck and back excercises could help a bit too.

[Christian Miller]

Aren’t Japanese guitars known for being quite weighty?

[redwater]

The Fujigen with floater is very light...

[Jimmy blue note]

The Fujigen with floater is very light...

Laminates will always be heavier than the similar spec'd instrument made from solid carved wood. The laminates by design need more plies in order to achieve the integrity and strength needed to maintain the form and force of the arch. That being said, yes the new generation laminate guitars are quite responsive (less mass, better attack and more sound) but they'll always come in as relative middle weights. The lightweight category goes to the hand carved solids. Those are based on the design philosophy that Jimmy D'Aquisto his distinctive mark with. Some builders who followed him in this 'school' built guitars that were a divergence from the Gibson way of building/carving.
Gibson Johnny Smith will be lighter than Ibanez JP20 (they can get a little heftier with some builders during the Norlin era) despite they're 17" and the JP is 16". Bob Benedetto's own creations fully acoustic follow the lighter design guitar thinking, High end Eastmans are also built notably light. I have a 17" 7 string Jimmy D'Aquisto that is quite a bit lighter than anything else including a 15" GB10. Yunzhei and Wo definitely follow the Eastman/Benedetto lineage, having been top luthiers at Eastman during their hayday.
So I'm not making any judgements on any of these guitars, I happen to love the playability and character of each and every one of the guitars I've mentioned. I'm only saying that when you're talking pure mass and weight, you bet a LOT more strength to weight on a well designed solid wood guitar and a good luthier will know how to use that to their advantage through arch carving and the bracings that will allow for optimization.

Something to think about anyway.

[kris]

A light guitar and a light amp, how do I know that?

[Jim Soloway]

I also own a Lee Ritenour L5, never took it to a gig, but if i did i would hide his signature on the truss rod cover. I much respect Lee, but his name stands also for music i don't really like too much ;-).

I'd leave it visible if only to honor this performance. I've long since lost count of how many times I've watched this.

[Gitterbug]

This is really getting off-topic, except that Lee Ritenour has a signature guitar. It's just my impression that he, Barney Kessel and even George Benson haven't won all the respect they deserve from us, due to having made money from outside pure jazz. The same goes for Andreas Öberg, who's drifted to the Korean pop music scene. Wes was forgiven for his violins-backed stuff, but what if he had lived longer? OTOH, if a noted player has a parallel career as a rank-and-file studio musician, this may be held to his credit once discovered by posteriority. If you do it for Hollywood, no good. If for Nashville, super. Korrekt me if I'm all wronk.

[redwater]

Laminates will always be heavier than the similar spec'd instrument made from solid carved wood. The laminates by design need more plies in order to achieve the integrity and strength needed to maintain the form and force of the arch. That being said, yes the new generation laminate guitars are quite responsive (less mass, better attack and more sound) but they'll always come in as relative middle weights. The lightweight category goes to the hand carved solids. Those are based on the design philosophy that Jimmy D'Aquisto his distinctive mark with. Some builders who followed him in this 'school' built guitars that were a divergence from the Gibson way of building/carving.
Gibson Johnny Smith will be lighter than Ibanez JP20 (they can get a little heftier with some builders during the Norlin era) despite they're 17" and the JP is 16". Bob Benedetto's own creations fully acoustic follow the lighter design guitar thinking, High end Eastmans are also built notably light. I have a 17" 7 string Jimmy D'Aquisto that is quite a bit lighter than anything else including a 15" GB10. Yunzhei and Wo definitely follow the Eastman/Benedetto lineage, having been top luthiers at Eastman during their hayday.
So I'm not making any judgements on any of these guitars, I happen to love the playability and character of each and every one of the guitars I've mentioned. I'm only saying that when you're talking pure mass and weight, you bet a LOT more strength to weight on a well designed solid wood guitar and a good luthier will know how to use that to their advantage through arch carving and the bracings that will allow for optimization.

Something to think about anyway.

All true, but: Heavy laminate about 3,5Kg / Lighter laminates 2,5-3Kg / Heavy carved 3Kg / Lighter carved about 2,5 Kg All depending on pickups and how it was constructed/carved - We are talking about 500g steps...