Floating pickup for Yunzhi

[mrblues]

Hi there!

I just got my Yunzhi, which I love a lot. But the hardware were not the best, the tuners needed to be replaced, because one of them was not working, and the frets needed to be polished. The electronics is also not a "flagship", I asked for Kent Armstrong pu, but I think they put a Korean into it, which is not handmade like the original, adn doesnt make that sound.

I saw a few videos about getting an L5 tone out of a floating, specially from a Johnny Smith, but seems like I cant find it anywhere to buy that kind of pickup. The DeArmond Rhythm Chief was also a good sounded pickup. I want a mellow, dark, and midrange-ish tone, but still acoustically rich. Played a lot with the EQ on my Quilter Aviator, but still didnt find that sound. Like this:

To my ears, the Alnico II magnets sound better, than the V's but I am opened to any suggestions to get the tone on the video.

Thanks,

MrBlues

[sgosnell]

You don't get a pickup handwound by Kent Armstrong unless you deal with him directly. Most of the Armstrong pickups available are Asian made imports. They can be pretty good, but not usually amazing. You can get a Johnny Smith style pickup from Pete Biltoft at Vintage Vibe Guitars, and some other places. Pete will work with you, and provides multiple magnets with many of his pickups. A Google search for "Johnny Smith guitar pickups" should return some possibilities. Kent Armstrong may build some, but I haven't checked, and his are not cheap. Seymour Duncan and Lindy Fralin are other possible sources. Personally I like the Rhythm Chief, and I have them on two of the guitars I had built by Wu. They're available from many sources. They're single coil, so may be a little noisy in some situations, but I've had no real problems with them.

[Jimmy blue note]

The reissue of the D'Armonds are really nice and can be had for $120 if you look around. They sound really nice.
Johnny Smith sound, or even a magnet and winding of your choice can be acquired through the Seymour Duncan Custom shop. Highly recommended. They gave me a sound that I didn't think was possible from a floater.
I also happen to like the Benedetto pickguard mounted floaters (built by Duncan too).

Good luck.

[Spook410]

You can buy the Armstrong handwound from a couple of sources. WD Music and Archtop.com usually stock them. You will also have to replace the pots, switches, and capacitors. CTS makes good pots. Switchcraft makes a good switch.

Also.. a lot of factors go in to how a guitar sounds. The pickup matters but a Yunzhi will always sound like a Benedetto pattern modern archtop. It's not going to sound like a Gibson L5 even if the two have the same electronics. This is not a bad thing. While the L5 has a nice warm/round 60's sound it's not going to have the acoustic ring of your Yunzhi.

[Sam Sherry]

Mr. Kent Armstrong has stated that his Asian pickups are all wound by a person whom he personally trained, and that he personally uses that person's parts in his own workshop unless working on something outside of the ordinary.

@Cunamara posted the actual quote here a couple of years ago.

[2bornot2bop]

When you purchase a Chinese archtop it’s not finished until you either install electronics, including frets and tuners, or pay someone to do it. There are no shortcuts to getting it right.

I spent an additional $800 on this one.

[sgosnell]

The last two guitars I got from Wu needed no work other than installing a pickup. I ordered it without any electronics, because I don't want a pickguard, and prefer using a DeArmond Rhythm Chief. The tuners are fine, not the most elegant but they work well enough. The frets are close to perfect, and I can get ~1mm action at the 12th fret without buzz on the one I use for single-note playing, although higher for the non-cut I use for chunking rhythm, unsurprisingly. The first one I bought, off ebay, did need a fret level, and the wiring was a mess. It seems that his attention to such details has improved over time.

[jorgemg1984]

As for the Alnico subject, most of the iconic 60s Gibson sounds were probably made with Alnico 5 PAFs, not Alnico 2. The Alnico 2 can be a little dark and muddy, and the "brightness" of the Alnico 5 can actually be very helpful.

[bluejaybill]

As for the Alnico subject, most of the iconic 60s Gibson sounds were probably made with Alnico 5 PAFs, not Alnico 2. The Alnico 2 can be a little dark and muddy, and the "brightness" of the Alnico 5 can actually be very helpful.

That's interesting, and I'd like to know if you can direct me towards information on the subject of the Alnico used in PAF style pickups.

I have heard that both were used, but it is only anecdotal information, and not something I have seen from an authoritative source.

The other thing that I have heard is that the Alnico that is used today is not the same as that used in the '50's and '60's. And I was told that by one of the most highly regarded boutique pickup makers.

Also, I have heard many rewound pickups from that era, and if properly done, they can sound indistinguishable from the originals. This has lead me to think that magnet composition is one of the main differences.

Not trying to disagree with you here, just trying to learn more on the subject.

[jorgemg1984]

No worries, that's what we are here for, to "disagree" and learn. BTW, I'm far from an expert on this subject.

It's not very easy to find good info about this, as you say, but here's some

Gibson Humbucker Pickups (information) – SoloDallas LLC

"From 1956 until 1961 Gibson used different Alnico magnets in their PAF pickups. Alnico magnets (alloys ALuminum, NIckel, and CObalt) come in a different grades based on their magnetic strength. Gibson generally used the same magnets (size/grade) which was available for their P-90 pickups. But Gibson randomly used Alnico 2,3,4,5 grade magnets in PAFs until 1961 (remember the higher the magnet’s number, the higher the magnetic strength). This can often account for how two PAF pickups can sound quite different. In July 1961 Gibson began consistently using a smaller Alnico 5 magnet (smaller as in the flat top side of the magnets were smaller length-wise). Since inconsistency was king at Gibson during this time, Alnico 2 short magnets are sometimes seen too. By 1965 though Alnico 5 was the standard for all Gibson humbuckers."

Gibson PAF Humbuckers: Why Are They So Revered, and How Do They Really Sound? | GuitarPlayer

"Part way through 1961, Gibson became more consistent in its use of Alnico V magnets. The length of the single magnet in each pickup was also reduced slightly, from 2 1/2 inches to 2 3/8 inches – a seemingly minor change, but significant to collectors."

This means that most of the 60s Gibson archtop sounds we love so much were probably made with Alnico 5, not Alnico 2. These days there's seem to be a lot of different boutique pickup makers and they seem to focus a lot of their PAF efforst on late 50s Alnico 2 replicas. And jazzers love words like "mellow", so they go after that description, but some of these replicas end up being too dark - either with "jazz amps", which tend to be dark anyway, and with Fenders, that despite being bright amps can also be bass heavy. Alnico 5 varietes, like the DiMarzio 36th and many others, can help with a more clear and defined sound. Dark can also mean muffled and bright can also mean clear. IMHO.

[jorgemg1984]

The other thing that I have heard is that the Alnico that is used today is not the same as that used in the '50's and '60's. And I was told that by one of the most highly regarded boutique pickup makers.

Never heard that one, but it might as well be true. Even so, there's plenty of excellent sounding pickups these days.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Mr. Kent Armstrong has stated that his Asian pickups are all wound by a person whom he personally trained, and that he personally uses that person's parts in his own workshop unless working on something outside of the ordinary.

@Cunamara posted the actual quote here a couple of years ago.

And that’s exactly what he told me. When I got my Eastman 810, I was curious about potential improvements in pickup sound quality for it, given how many posts we’ve seen here about the “need” to replace the pickup that Eastman puts on them. I was and still am very happy with the sound - but just as things could always be worse, they could also be better.

So I called Kent to discuss a “hand wound” upgrade. He told me that the stock ones on Eastmans (identifiable by the printed info on the label - the ones he makes himself have hand written labels) are no different from the floaters he makes himself. He suggested that if I like the sound I have, there’s no reason to waste money on one that differs only in who made it.

He offered to custom make a new one if I could describe exactly what I wanted to change. But I honestly can’t think of a specific change that would make me any happier than I am now.

[2bornot2bop]

mrblues, you’re better off going to Pete Biltoft for a pickup. Tell him what you’re looking for, and he’ll make you a specific pickup to fill your needs. The pickup in the photos of my former Wu was a CC floating pickup built by Pete. And the thing is, he’s not as expensive as many other pickups. I’d give him a try.

The pickup in the video you posted appears to be a BJB, made by Gibson. That pickup is one of the finest floating pickups ever produced.

[sgosnell]

One of the advantages of Biltoft's pickups is that the magnets are easy to change, and he provides two different magnet sets with each pickup, and sells extra magnets of whatever composition very cheaply. You can switch between alnico II and V, or almost any other magnet type, very easily and see which you prefer.