Kent Armstrong Handwound PAF Worth it?

[Cunamara]

Well, as of 3/2019, Kent Armstrong USA posted:

"Just a FYI Kent has not licensed anyone in China to build his pickups......He does have a Korean partner who builds and sells Kent Armstrong pickups which he builds to Kent's specifications...."

and then Kent posted:

"I saw the posts asking about my pick-ups made abroad.
In answer to all, my Korean partner builds to my specifications faithfully. I use his parts here in Vermont to make conventional pick-ups like humbuckers and single coils. I also use them to prototype for customers wanting to have them made in Korea.

I can promise you that my Korean ones are every bit as good as the ones I would make here in my shop.

Most sincerely Kent Armstrong"

Kent Armstrong Pickups


FWIW.

[mikeSF]

A pickup pairs uniquely to the instrument, so it is worth trying a few in your guitar to see what you prefer. You may learn about your guitar in the process.
I've gravitated to Kent handwound PAFs in every one of my jazz guitars. They have the full and natural sound I really like, and they sound great configured as series/parallel or coil split too.

If you have an opportunity to work directly with Kent, he is a stand up guy and really bends over backwards to take care of his customers. Pleasant enough chap.

[Cunamara]

A pickup pairs uniquely to the instrument, so it is worth trying a few in your guitar to see what you prefer. You may learn about your guitar in the process.

this is my experience, too. At least with archtop guitars; it seems to be less true with solid body instruments

[mikeSF]

this is my experience, too. At least with archtop guitars; it seems to be less true with solid body instruments

There was this one time where the archtop&KA pickup were just absolutely not a match, an upper midrange spike that was nearly offensive to my ears...I sold the archtop and kept the pickup, lol.
true story.

[mikeSF]

OP mentioned an Eastman El Rey 2. I've not owned it but in my Eastmans of the past, found them rather bright, and the Kent PAF-0 overwound version was just the perfect match to attenuate some highs. An added benefit of an overwound pickup, is your parallel and/or split sounds have more guts!

[Cunamara]

There was this one time where the archtop&KA pickup were just absolutely not a match, an upper midrange spike that was nearly offensive to my ears...I sold the archtop and kept the pickup, lol.
true story.

I had a rather similar experience with the KA 12 pole floating PAF. I had mounted it to the pickguard like it is designed for and found that I just did not like the sound. There was a very hard edged brightness that I just could not dial out. I went through several other pickups, settling for a couple of years on a neck-mounted Pete Biltoft Charlie Christian style pickup. I really like the sound of that pickup. A couple of months ago I read about using Blue Tack to mount floating pickups to the top of the guitar. It seemed like an intriguing idea; I gave that a try, reinstalled the KA and the pickup really is transformed into a much warmer, fatter sounding pickup with much less upper end harshness. And quite frankly I'm not sure anything could be simpler in terms of mounting the pickup. It takes about 15 seconds. [Edit: the pickup is about 1/8" further from the strings, which of course also affects the tone].

I should contact Kent and see if he would make me one of those pickups with a Johnny Smith style neck mount. [Edit: I have a pet theory that is probably full of ****, since I am neither a luthier nor an acoustic engineer. It goes like this: much like picking your amp up off the floor and putting it on a chair, decoupling the pickup from the top of the guitar reduces the bass content of the signal. Benedetto popularized mounting the pickup to the pickguard, in part because he was looking for an amplified acoustic sound rather than an electric sound and in part because he did not want to cut holes in the top of the instrument. Gibson had done something similar with the "McCarty" pickup in the 40s. This reduces the coupling between the pick up and the guitar, therefore emphasizing the string sound in the signal and reducing the vibrational input of the guitar. I could be all wrong about the physics of this, of course.

When the Gibson Johnny Smith guitar was being developed, Gibson had developed a new mini-humbucker pickup and that model was the first guitar to get it. The pickup was mounted to a bracket attached to the end of the neck. To my ears, that location sounds like a midpoint between the top-mounted pickup and the pickguard-mounted pick up. Inspired by Peter Bernstein's tone, I had modified a Gibson Classic 57 pickup to be mounted with a neck bracket. It worked pretty well, but the pickup was just thick enough that it was too tight a fit between the top and the strings. Balance was hard to achieve as a result. I replaced that pickup with the Pete Biltoft HCC mentioned above, also mounted with a neck bracket, and I really like the tone of that. That pickup was on the guitar until I got my recent wild hair about the KA; the Biltoft will probably go back on one of these days because I like the single coil sound with about half of the treble rolled off with the tone knob.

DeArmond pickups could be mounted with a neck rod, coupling it in that sense, and rested on the guitar which also couples it to the top, and held down on the other end by the pick guard. One of our forum members mentioned using Blue Tack to mount a DeArmond pick up to his guitar and liking the result; that was when I decided to try that with my KA pickup. It's been a fun quarantine experiment.].

[mikeSF]

... I read about using Blue Tack to mount floating pickups to the top of the guitar. It seemed like an intriguing idea; I gave that a try, reinstalled the KA and the pickup really is transformed into a much warmer, fatter sounding pickup with much less upper end harshness.

whoa, great tip! thx for sharing that story.

[Cunamara]

Sure. The caveat there is that on some guitars mounting it to the pickguard sounds wonderful. There are a lot of examples, for example, on YouTube of exactly that. As was pointed out upthread, it really is a combination of the instrument, the pickup, the amp, etc. It's difficult to say that because this guitar sounds like x with that pickup, that guitar will sound the same. There seem to be too many variables for that. It is one of the things that makes this all so fascinating.

[Sébastien]

Hello Chameleon, I have a El Rey 2 and i am looking for new pickups.
Like you I live in europe and have similar question about the US Kent Armstrong. I am also Interested in the Lollar Imperial and the Häussel 1959.
Did you finally change the pickups ?
Thank you.

[sbeishline]

I had a rather similar experience with the KA 12 pole floating PAF. I had mounted it to the pickguard like it is designed for and found that I just did not like the sound. There was a very hard edged brightness that I just could not dial out. I went through several other pickups, settling for a couple of years on a neck-mounted Pete Biltoft Charlie Christian style pickup. I really like the sound of that pickup. A couple of months ago I read about using Blue Tack to mount floating pickups to the top of the guitar. It seemed like an intriguing idea; I gave that a try, reinstalled the KA and the pickup really is transformed into a much warmer, fatter sounding pickup with much less upper end harshness. And quite frankly I'm not sure anything could be simpler in terms of mounting the pickup. It takes about 15 seconds. [Edit: the pickup is about 1/8" further from the strings, which of course also affects the tone].

Hi Cunamara - can you use the Blue Tack safely on a French polish without leaving permanent marks? I may give this a go before attempting to drill holes for a pickguard.

Also, do you leave the pickup on the instrument with the tack in hot temps/in the case, or remove it and reapply each time?

[lawson-stone]

I have several guitars with Gibson Classic 57's, and I've used Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers, which I really like a lot. I also have a 90's Benedetto B6 which at the time was made by KA. But honestly, the best PAF copy for the money for me has been the StewMac Parson Street Golden Age. It's a great sounding pickup for a reasonable price. The Duncan and Classic 57 might be marginally better, but not in proportion with the higher price.

[lammie200]

Chiming in. I have a 12 pole handwound KA Johnny Smith floating mini humbucker on a Mr. Wu archtop. I traded out the Asian made KA that he put on it. The handwound is infinitely better sounding. It might have something to do with the adjustability, but it is just more balanced and articulate.

I also have a Fralin P-92 in the neck position on my Tele partscaster. I got it because of the inspiration I felt a few years back from seeing Chris Whiteman’s review. I even spoke to Lindy about making me one just like what Chris was playing. Another really great pickup IMHO. It glows with musicality. Funny how my old ears can pick this stuff up. Then again, I suppose that my old ears might be the reason why.

[Cunamara]

Hi Cunamara - can you use the Blue Tack safely on a French polish without leaving permanent marks? I may give this a go before attempting to drill holes for a pickguard.

Also, do you leave the pickup on the instrument with the tack in hot temps/in the case, or remove it and reapply each time?

I am afraid that I cannot speak to the safety of using that with French polish. French polish is a delicate finish of many very thin layers, although the chemistry of shellac is kind of unique in that subsequent layers sort of melt into prior layers.

My instrument has a modern finish that has proven tough and durable. I had no concerns about using blue tack on that. I just left it mounted on for months. The material does seem to set up over time and to develop a very firm hold. When I tried taking the pickup off of the guitar, the magnet stayed stuck to the top and the blue tack. It popped right back in with no problem and the pickup works fine, so no harm no foul. But it sure was startling!

I would use two very small blobs of blue tack, no more than 3 to 4 mm or perhaps the size of a pea. It does not take a lot to get a very firm grip.

[John A.]

because they don't use the same parts...enamel wire...bobbins made of same material...magnets. etc etc

also a handwind by a skilled winder thats been doing it for decades rather than a young girl in a factory that never even touched a guitar

all the winders i mentioned ^ either do it themselves or have a small team of trained winders who've been doing it for years

cheers

Kent Armstrong (or maybe it was Aaron, I forget which one) chimed in here on a pickup thread not too long ago to say that the MIK pickups use the exact same components from the same suppliers as the hand-wound ones, and that the only differences are the hand-winding vs automated machine winding (not young female factory-worker winding) and the ability to get custom-spec pickups from the hand-wound operation. I can't vouch for this being true, but I can vouch for him having said it.

John

[lammie200]

Yeah, but not all the same model pickups are available across the board both Asian and Vermont handwound. I don't see any Asian 12 pole pickups available for example.