Future of jazz guitar amplification?

[RJVB]

But everyone in the house said it sounded fantastic, including the sound guy (who's the club owner and bass player in our blues band, but he doesn't play any jazz).

They're not wrong, but then I don't have any comparison. At least you know you can get a "fine" sound without having to bother taking your own amp and miking it...

pull an IEM out of my ear (which I've already done a few times) or strangle myself.

Let the IEM cords pass behind your neck and behind your strap (if you don't move it too much) with enough slack so you can move your head?

I had both input and output gain knobs set at about 1 o'clock. Even cranking the input gain all the way up, I get no distortion using this guitar through the MP.

There are YT videos showing Tube MPs in distortion with a plugged-in electric guitar. It does require increasing the output setting to more than 1 o'clock (which is in fact the tube drive from what I understand), and you may need to engage the +20dB input booster.
Did you get the impression there you got less of a "tubey" sound with a lower output gain setting?

[RJVB]

The "preamp topologies" are not what I would consider "very different", and these three all scoop mids (shown here with knobs at noon, you can play around for yourself — and see the similarities and differences — here: TSC in the web )

Are these "signature sounds" that apply also to their small 10W "practice" amps? I listened to a few comparison videos a while back (linked to 1 in this thread IIRC). Didn't like the Fender at all, the Vox Pathfinder 10 was very nice and vocal in its clean setting but despite its association with rock I probably liked the Marshall best (also in clean mode; pity it apparently tends to hum a lot).
FWIW, maybe (small) size is what matters here but it seems many guitarists prefer the bass version of the Vox - maybe (also) because it has 2 speakers?

[pingu]

because i already have a high power
amp a BAM200

I’m thinking of going ....
quilter Phantom Block
to BAM200
to Toob metro speaker

it might be the cheapest/ simplest
/neatest solution for me ....
and velcro it all together to make a tiny ‘combo’

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

They're not wrong, but then I don't have any comparison. At least you know you can get a "fine" sound without having to bother taking your own amp and miking it.

True enough - but we have a backline at the club that includes a custom shop Princeton Reverb, a Vibrolux, the Jazz 12, a tweed Blues Deluxe, and a Peavey. So I don’t have to bring anything anyway.

Let the IEM cords pass behind your neck and behind your strap (if you don't move it too much) with enough slack so you can move your head?

Behind the strap is where I get into trouble. I also play keys. We have a Nord and a Hammond, and I move among them between tunes. I do like a strap on stage, even though I much prefer sitting to standing. But it’s a bit cumbersome to keep taking off & putting on with the IEMs. I’ve yanked at least one out of an ear this way several times. If I run the cord under the strap, even just turning far enough to talk to or signal the drummer, the rough inside surface of my leather strap tugs the cord. And if I leave the cord outside the strap and forget to remove the strap or the IEMs before taking off the guitar, the obvious happens.

This week, I tried snugging the keeper up to the back of my head, leaving a loose loop hanging over the back of my collar, and running the cord under my shirt and out right over my belt. This was much less troublesome.

There are YT videos showing Tube MPs in distortion with a plugged-in electric guitar. It does require increasing the output setting to more than 1 o'clock (which is in fact the tube drive from what I understand), and you may need to engage the +20dB input booster.

I’ve never tried the input booster - I’ll throw it on for tomorrow’s blues show and check it out.

Did you get the impression there you got less of a "tubey" sound with a lower output gain setting?

Not at all - the way I’ve been using it, there’s just a bit more fat in the sound. It’s most noticeable to me into my M-Audio DAW, but I hear and feel it through the house system too. This is how I’ve gotten the best jazz tones from my solid bodies.

Thanks!

[supersoul]

FWIW, the best and most versatile amp I ever used for guitar is the biggest Roland keyboard amp in their line from about 10 years ago (the original incarnation of what’s now the KC600)....

These are amazing amps - you can get pretty much whatever sound characteristics you want from it with any guitar, bass, or keyboard. Of course it weighed a ton and cost a fortune, but neither of those was our problem

I used to have the Roland K350 and that thing was great! I bought it as a general purpose amplifier to have around my studio. It is a great amp for most instruments, including guitar. As I recall it has a "shape" button that gives it a different flavor. 4 channel mixer, bass/mid/treble tone, master volume. It had an incredible amount of clean headroom.

The only downside was the fuzzy shag carpet material on the sides, which was a magnet for all types of detritus. My cat loved it as a scratching board.

I ended up giving it to a friend when I moved to Europe a few years ago, and he still uses it daily.

[thpm]

Are these "signature sounds" that apply also to their small 10W "practice" amps?

These are the freq responses of the tonestacks/preamps, which are at least similar in the smaller ones— But of course the "sound" comes from the whole package, not the preamp.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The only downside was the fuzzy shag carpet material on the sides, which was a magnet for all types of detritus.

I learned quickly about the biggest drawback to those fuzzy coverings back in the days of public smoking. Back in the ‘80s, I bought one of the first shaggy boxes from SWR and loved it for smaller gigs (like bars) where I didn’t need my Boogie. The morning after the first time I played out with it, it was still sitting on the floor near the kitchen where my wife had to pass it to make coffee.

”What smells like an ashtray in here?!?!”

That stuff sucked up the smells of its environment like a vacuum cleaner. I probably used enough carpet cleaner to maintain a small hotel trying to purge eau de dive.

[bleakanddivine]

There are YT videos showing Tube MPs in distortion with a plugged-in electric guitar. It does require increasing the output setting to more than 1 o'clock (which is in fact the tube drive from what I understand), and you may need to engage the +20dB input booster.
Did you get the impression there you got less of a "tubey" sound with a lower output gain setting?

I use the ART Tube MP StudioV3 and I think the tube drive comes from the input setting, not the output setting. There's a meter on the S3 labeled Tube Warmth which is only affected by the input control. In fact it says in the manual 'The Tube Warmth VU meter displays the signal level at the output of the tube section, BEFORE THE OUTPUT LEVEL CONTROL.

[RJVB]

In fact it says in the manual 'The Tube Warmth VU meter displays the signal level at the output of the tube section, BEFORE THE OUTPUT LEVEL CONTROL.

Easy to check: does the VU meter react to the output gain setting?

The simpler/older versions that don't have a tube voicing selector could be different in this aspect though.There's a circuit schema somewhere.

[bleakanddivine]

Easy to check: does the VU meter react to the output gain setting?

The simpler/older versions that don't have a tube voicing selector could be different in this aspect though.There's a circuit schema somewhere.

I have checked. The input setting affects the VU meter but the output setting does not. I assume that the tube voicings selector is just a selection of hard-wired input setting choices and that the basic workings of the older and newer models are the same.

[citizenk74]

...that I remember when an amp was required just to get yourself heard, at any level, in the room or in the mix. Just to be heard. Even so, we were sometimes unsuccessful. Veritable arms raced ensued, as financially ruinous as their cold-war analogs. BIGGER. LOUDER. MORE!

Nowadays, we are expecting to be (and getting!) heard; with our tones intact, at a reasonable volume, and without the weight, bulk, and ox-like effort of bygone days.

We've come a long way, Baby! let us celebrate the moment!

[stylo]

I think that may be the case for many kinds of playing. There's something about the interaction between the speaker, the guitar and the player that in-ear won't replace though. The visceral feel of the sound hitting you...or something. I'm probably talking about louder guitaring than most jazz.

I'm long past my performing days. We didn't even have in-ear back then. But I experienced it in the recording studio where hearing myself in the cans wasn't at all the same feel as being in the room in front of the amp.

ymmv on this but I find that playing 60db on my Roland KC-100 1x12" is way clearer and more present than the same 60db on my Yamaha THR10-II 2x3". In fact I can play 55db on the Roland and still hear the note clarity better than 70db on the Yamaha. Something about the air moving in the space, I think.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I remember when an amp was required just to get yourself heard, at any level, in the room or in the mix. Just to be heard. Even so, we were sometimes unsuccessful.

I blame it all on those d@mned drummers!! And it went downhill rapidly from there once some fool stuck a mic in front of them. Just look what they've gone and done now.......

[rpjazzguitar]

A few years ago I bought a used KC-150. As I recall it seemed like a lot of amp for the money, which was in line with what they tended to sell for.

It's turned out to be a workhorse. Usually, it's the kb amp in a rehearsal space, but I've gigged with it on guitar, used it for harmonica, vocals (in a pinch), to playback mp3s from my phone, and anything else that needed to be mic'ed. It has a very rudimentary 4 channel mixer, which has been useful. Never used it for bass, and would only do so very quietly, but it would probably manage. I have used it for the pianist kicking bass after splitting the kb. I wish it had reverb, but it doesn't. I either can feed it with a mixer, or put a reverb unit (a Korg handheld PX5D has worked ok) in front of it.

Kb players tend to think of it as a lower quality of amplification, but not so bad that they'd rather lug their own amp to a rehearsal.

[pingu]

I’ve used one at a jam session

yeah sounded ok ,
I could only get anything out of channel 1
though , which was cool

[rpjazzguitar]

I’ve used one at a jam session

yeah sounded ok ,
I could only get anything out of channel 1
though , which was cool

Channel 1 has the mic/line input, but I get good volume out of the other 3 channels as well. Ordinary passive humbucker guitar.

[Danny W.]

Have an outdoor concert this week, thinking of trying this out:



Acoustic Image Doubleshot on AI Ten2 EX.

Danny W.

[jads57]

That’s a lot of power and speakers for an Archtop Jazz gig! Let us know how it works out Danny W!

[Bluedawg]

Have an outdoor concert this week, thinking of trying this out:



Acoustic Image Doubleshot on AI Ten2 EX.

Danny W.

Do you ever have any gigs in Tucson?

I'm about 3 hours from the Phoenix area, but a trip to Tucson is pretty easy for me.

Assuming you have a gig that's open to the public ... and you don't mind an internet guitar nerd showing up.

Hope your gig goes well.

[rpjazzguitar]

First consideration is how the action feels under my hand. I like it soft.

Second consideration is how the high E string sounds around and above the 12th fret. If it's too thin, I'll go up a gauge on that string.

So, on my Comins GCS-1, I've got 11, 13, 16, 24, 32, 42. That's a set of 9s, throw away the 9 and buy a separate 13. They tune ok, except for the low E, which tends to be a little unstable.

I don't know if it would be easier on the right hand to play much heavier strings. My left hand can't do that. I suspect, though, that it would help, because picking near the bridge is a little easier -- the string is less floppy there. But, picking near the bridge doesn't give the sound I want.

[Danny W.]

That’s a lot of power and speakers for an Archtop Jazz gig! Let us know how it works out Danny W!

There's a good chance I'll just leave the EX in my car

Do you ever have any gigs in Tucson?

I'm about 3 hours from the Phoenix area, but a trip to Tucson is pretty easy for me.

Assuming you have a gig that's open to the public ... and you don't mind an internet guitar nerd showing up.

Hope your gig goes well.

Thank you. The closest to Tucson we've done is Tempe, and that was many years ago. Most of our gigs are in the West Valley, with Goodyear being the farthest south. That's as much traveling as I want to do these days.

From Goodyear, in October:

Danny W.

[mauibob]

1189378[/URL]]Have an outdoor concert this week, thinking of trying this out:



Acoustic Image Doubleshot on AI Ten2 EX.

Danny W.

Gawd! No matter how many guitars I buy from Danny he still has at least seven guitar cases showing! I remain an amateur totally in awe!
LOL

[Eck]

ymmv on this but I find that playing 60db on my Roland KC-100 1x12" is way clearer and more present than the same 60db on my Yamaha THR10-II 2x3". In fact I can play 55db on the Roland and still hear the note clarity better than 70db on the Yamaha. Something about the air moving in the space, I think.

That’s the result of Yamaha pulling out every trick in the book to make 3” sound big. So everything gets moved to the 500-1500Hz frequency range and because the tones lose definition they don’t stand out. Also because in the Toland speaker you will get much more sound energy because same energy at lower frequency means less dBA. Try dBC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Danny W.]

Gawd! No matter how many guitars I buy from Danny he still has at least seven guitar cases showing! I remain an amateur totally in awe!
LOL

LOL is right!

Here's what was in the room 16 years ago when we installed new flooring and I was moving everything back in:



This is what's left after you bought the rest:





Here's half of what I had when we lived in New England:



None of my current guitars were with us when we moved here. It's a process.

Danny W.

[EastwoodMike]

LOL is right!

Here's what was in the room 16 years ago when we installed new flooring and I was moving everything back in:



This is what's left after you bought the rest:





Here's half of what I had when we lived in New England:



None of my current guitars were with us when we moved here. It's a process.

Danny W.

well that goes some way to explaining why it is so hard to find archtops in the Southern Hemisphere!! ?