Pacific Jazz-era Joe Pass...

[John A.]

Actually Joe did some composing. Every tune on Virtuoso III was his composition.

By "fully realized" I'm thinking of distinct contexts. I think JP nailed it in many more contexts that many other players.

Fair point, but Wes composed some tunes that entered the standards repertoire (West Coast Blues, Four on Six, Road Song) and had originals on almost all his recordings (granted, many were blues heads). Pass's composing wasn't as big a part of his overall work and musical persona. Pass having nailed it in so many contexts is mainly a function of him having chosen the path of sideman and studio musician and those being the gigs he got. Wes was on a different path, as a leader and one of the true jazz stars (both artistically and commercially) of the day. I think they're both "fully realized" on those different path, and I don't think either would have wanted to fill the other's shoes. Anyway, both were extraordinary and inspirational players. I love and listen to both, but they hit different emotions/chords in me.

John

[lawson-stone]

Fair point, but Wes composed some tunes that entered the standards repertoire (West Coast Blues, Four on Six, Road Song) and had originals on almost all his recordings (granted, many were blues heads). Pass's composing wasn't as big a part of his overall work and musical persona. Pass having nailed it in so many contexts is mainly a function of him having chosen the path of sideman and studio musician and those being the gigs he got. Wes was on a different path, as a leader and one of the true jazz stars (both artistically and commercially) of the day. I think they're both "fully realized" on those different path, and I don't think either would have wanted to fill the other's shoes. Anyway, both were extraordinary and inspirational players. I love and listen to both, but they hit different emotions/chords in me.

John

I still think of Joe Pass as "one of the true jazz stars" as well. Why someone nailed so many contexts is irrelevant to their actual achievement. How many guitarists could record duets with a TROMBONIST? Joe did it. Joe and Ella filled arenas, one near my home, just the two of them. Not many jazz guitarists recorded as convincingly as Joe acoustically (Summer Nights, Appassionato) as they did electric. His knowledge of the tunes, and the evident lack of any technical obstacle, they leave me spellbound even after decades of listening to him every day.

I'm always puzzled at how often people want to "nuance" Joe Pass' greatness.

[Doctor Jeff]

There aren't many solo Wes recordings. He clearly went a different route than Joe, for the most part.

I don't doubt that he could accompany Ella or anyone he wanted to accompany though.

Thankfully we have so many recordings of both of them!

Beautiful song--the feeling on this is superb.

[John A.]

I still think of Joe Pass as "one of the true jazz stars" as well. Why someone nailed so many contexts is irrelevant to their actual achievement. How many guitarists could record duets with a TROMBONIST? Joe did it. Joe and Ella filled arenas, one near my home, just the two of them. Not many jazz guitarists recorded as convincingly as Joe acoustically (Summer Nights, Appassionato) as they did electric. His knowledge of the tunes, and the evident lack of any technical obstacle, they leave me spellbound even after decades of listening to him every day.

I'm always puzzled at how often people want to "nuance" Joe Pass' greatness.

I'm not trying do that and didn't intend for this to get into some sort of point/counterpoint making a case for one being better than the other. I'm just saying there's more than one way to look at "fully realized".

John

[mr. beaumont]

Grant Green actually recorded with Trane's rhythm section, therefore he's more fully realized than either.

[John A.]

Grant Green actually recorded with Trane's rhythm section, therefore he's more fully realized than either.

But he didn't comp, so he loses realization points.

John

[lawson-stone]

I'm out of here. Now that it's turned snide, I got no interest.

[mr. beaumont]

I'm out of here. Now that it's turned snide, I got no interest.

Ah, it's not snide man-- I even poked fun at myself with that GG+Trane rhythm section comment!

Just wanted to lighten it up a bit and show yas it was kind of a silly thing to disagree about.

[Doctor Jeff]

You know, snide is not a word I’ve heard much these days. Used to hear it from my teachers—“what was that snide comment from the back row??” My parents would have just said “smartass.”

[John A.]

I'm out of here. Now that it's turned snide, I got no interest.

It wasn't snide. It was absurdist/inane levity referencing other similar conversations about GG. No insult intended.

John