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I just check reverb out looking at the D'angelico guitars for sale. WOW a bunch of nice ones but the prices are completely off the wall. Sure you can make a offer on any of them the listing says but I really wonder how much they will go for. For us normal folks here on the forum it makes it hard to really ever think you might score of these now days, but in the world of the wealthy it is nothing at all. Just think if you are multi-millionaire as there certainly a few you just buy them all like you went to the grocery store. Even a professional baseball player who like guitars and has a huge contract,
Well in any case I suggest you hit the search function on Reverb and see some cool D'angelico's. I would be curious of the forums reaction as this is the biggest group of them I have seen in many many years all for sale at once. Maybe the largest.
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12-09-2020 06:45 PM
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he's had a number of them for sale for years now but many of these just recently listed are fresh to the market.
I don't suspect he needs the money hence the high prices. that and being in NY = big $
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god bless rudy pensa...knew him since he was at alex music shop...about 45 years ago!...older guy now with locked down $$$$ high rent shops...probably feeling it...he knows what they are worth! been a great keeper of the archtop flame!! none better
best of luck to him always...
cheers
ps- was nicely contacted privately about my above response so would like to further clarify my opinion-
rudy has been dealing in nyc for close to 50 years...he is internationally renowned...has had a hand in curating museum shows etc....has shops in some of the highest real estate zones in the world!
he knows his market...maybe not for us mere mortals... but, why curate a collection like that...over the course of decades!!... and not get museum collector prices...that's who's going to wind up with them eventually anyway
his stores always had the godins, rics, gretsches and gibsons for the "working" musician
that's why we loved him!...he's a guitar hero/mentor to me...since i was a kid...so you may be asking the wrong guy!!! hahLast edited by neatomic; 12-09-2020 at 07:23 PM. Reason: ps-
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Rudy has had his collection of DA's up for sale for years at prices that are way above market. I doubt he has sold very many of them.
That informs me that his collection is only for sale if someone is willing to pay way more than the market will bear. Any wise guitar dealer should always consider selling any guitar that he/she may own under that circumstance. Short of a guitar with un-measurable sentimental value, we should all be willing to do the same. For the right price, everything I own is for sale. But for a lot of my property, the right price is a lot more than anyone is willing to pay, so I get to keep it.
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If you click on D’Angelico in the Archtop section, 10 of the 67 guitars that show up are real authentic D’Angelicos. I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before.
Including one Beauty, for $16,000. If I had the money I’d be on that one like white on rice.
Johns designs have stood the test of time. Still the most beautiful symmetrical designs ever.
Joe D
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Rudy's was a staple of the old 48th street Music Row. For many years my imagination was kept on overdrive by the gems in his private collection (by appointment to play instruments that museums wish they could display). He and Lawrence Wexer, from the golden era. When I moved to New York, you could get a D'Aquisto for 8 grand, a Gibson Johnny Smith for $2500 and that was a LOT! It all changed when collecting became a thing. Thanks collectors.
In case you don't find what you want from Rudy:
Index | Gbase.com > Guitars Amps & More
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i realize he has had many guitars and some show on the old GUITARBASE, but this is the first time I have seen all go on Reverb. To me that means something but maybe I am completely wrong. My guess is like anyone else we do change and frankly we take nothing with us when we check out. He may have run the love of these guitars to the point he can let them go with a bit more visibility. I tell you though if he would allow me to go and just play each of them for a day I would do it, even though I am not a buyer.
Like SS says anything I have is potentially for sale, not my soul got to keep the devil from that. Most of the stuff that is really important you cannot buy.
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Oh he'll gladly let you play them, that's Rudy.
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Rudy Pensa is deeply steeped in Archtop history and began collecting well over 30 years ago. His private collection includes some of the best D’Angelico, D’Aquisto and Monteleone guitars in existence.
He has been instrumental , and thus far ,very successful with his marketing efforts to establish and retain high valuations on these great instruments. In fact , I know of one client of Rudy’s who paid $350000 for one Monteleone, and the MET paid over 1 million dollars for the Monteleone 4 seasons.
Rudy also spent a great deal of money publishing “ Archtop Guitars” the journey from Cremona - to celebrate his life long passion for the instrument, and he spearheaded a great celebration at the MET several years ago.
So with that said, many clients have been willing to pay Rudy’s prices, or close to it, but of course those transactions occur with clients whose disposable income is well beyond what most of us could imagine.
Now, when I speak with other dealers like my good friend Larry Wexer, they see a different market with buyers who are very particular when it comes to anything over 20k, and they experience a different transactional price point on these brands than Rudy has attracted.
So, does the association with the Rudy Pensa’s name add that much value?
As with most of you - I look forward to see the actual selling prices of these guitars to find out.
In the meantime - I’ll will refrain from passing judgement on his efforts.
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Marketing 101 Buy Low, Sell High! I'm sure some of these guitars will sell for high prices. But not because of his association with them, but because of the collectability value.
I've seen his website and his Pensa brand S guitars are way over priced as well. Over the years John Suh r and other luthiers were responsible for building them with sourced parts from other vendors.
He seems like a good marketer for sure, but with all of the newer possibilities of guitars from the internet, etc. It no longer the 1970's, or 1980s where 48th street or George Gruhn had the coolest gear!
He is competing with many other people and places that don't have high overhead costs.
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A stop in Rudy’s in Soho is always an experience. I have had the privilege of enjoying those marvelous instruments from behind the glass (as close as I dare to get) on a few occasions. I can’t help but think that those magnificent creations will become less accessible to the average person once they pass from Rudy’s hands. But, all things come to pass. Here’s Grant Green’s D’Aquisto behind the glass at Rudy’s:
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$16 K doesn't seem that much, compared to what people are asking for other guitars.
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Just so this is clear. I am not passing judgment on his efforts, just stating the prices are high. I don’t know Rudy but genuinely like is cause and taste in guitars. Since he is not trying to sell them on this forum I simply made the comment on the prices. I find him a great source that he allows guitarist to play these and they are available.
Originally Posted by QAman
Once they go to museums and become icons like works of priceless masterpieces of art, they cease to have my interest. I have go back and remain a humble hack player trying to play what I hear.
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If you guys are talking about the 54 Excel on Reverb for 16.5K, look at the ad. It is a Triggs guitar with a D'Angelico neck. You would be hard pressed to find any real John D'Angelico Excel for less than 20K.
1954 John D'Angelico Excel Wine Burst...this is truly as | Reverb
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Mark, I never even read your post - I just noticed this topic and chimed in at the end. I would never even pass judgement against your opinion, which I highly value by the way, and your assessment of things is usually right on the money. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk oooLast edited by QAman; 12-09-2020 at 10:54 PM.
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"Here’s Grant Green’s D’Aquisto behind the glass at Rudy’s:"
Mark, is Grant's D'Aquisto back at Rudy's or is that a past picture? Covid has kept away lately.
Rudy has always been a good man and if you absolutely are crazy about DA's, Daq's, and Mont's, Rudy is just is nuts and loves talking about those guitars. I'm just a regular guy, who made my way on my own with not much at the beginning. I bought my DA from the original owner in the early 80's. My first Da'q in the early 90's and have since gotten two more and John Monteleone made me a guitar a bit over ten years ago. They were good times then and I could never do that now and it's unbelievable I have the four of them.
I love love talking DA's, Daq's, and Monteleone's with Rudy; he is is sick as me. (I dream about that that stuff, I'm sick, really!) Rudy is a gas to discuss them with him. He helped point out those guitars are made by the greatest Americans guitar makers and are some of the greatest American made art; and fun to play.
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Perhaps somebody on Wall Street told Rudy that interest rates are round about zero, so the smart money has nowhere to go to make more money. Collecting rare and beautiful things thus becomes an attractive investment opportunity.
According to commodity theory, scarcity enhances the value of anything that can be possessed, is useful to its possessor, and is transferable from one person to another. D’Angelico’s guitars are few in number, can be played and can be sold. Rudy has a significant proportion of the available D’Angelico guitars, so he has some control over the market.
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Dane, I took that picture about 2 yrs ago. I have been back to Rudy’s since, but I don’t recall if it was there or not. They have moved things around in the store and that magical upstairs now houses acoustic flat tops, I believe.
I didn’t realize you had such a great collection, Dane. When life gets back to normal I’d love to see some of your beauties. I believe we are only an hour from each other
Originally Posted by Dane
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Grew up in Newark and I got some of my best deals on guitars from Rudy's and Alex's. I guess you could say he was DA competitor, I have a Sam Koontz 1972 that was originally made for Pat Martino. Passed down to me from my cousin who was archtop player.. And they share many values. Great instrument I've often wondered what it would sell for. I play it ocassionally, but I'm not an arch topper.. But it is a beauty. Where would I go to market it?
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As has been discussed, Rudy is a treasure. It's so rare to find someone in the guitar marketplace who is deeply passionate about archtops. All of my interactions with Rudy have been fabulous. I wish him all the best. And I'm happy for those fortunate enough to become the next caretakers of Rudy's beautiful instruments.
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Never made it to the soho store but on 48th street Rudy was awesome. He had no idea who I was, I’d go in and drool and buy strings and he treated me -everyone - like an important customer. Special guy.
He’s got to be up there in years, maybe he figures it’s time.
Anyway, the prices/costs in NYC are nothing like they were even ten years ago. A plain old upper middle class couple could go in and hit some really fine places for high but reasonable dollars. Not now. Forgettaboutit.
We have a neighbor who is a bond trader the City. He gives his wife a totally new kitchen every year. Down to the studs. (I understand he does keep the custom wood pizza oven, bless his little heart.)))
So given that, if Rudy can collect some of that Wall Street money floating around he deserves it!
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If anyone thinks he's getting a true D'Angelico or D'Aqusito for less than five figures, he's delusional.
They're all handmade by one man. There are a limited number of these guitars in existence and there aren't any more being made.
An Epiphone Deluxe went for approx. $300 in 1936. That's $5-6k in today's money. Same as Gibsons. These were made by an anonymous team of builders. They were able to make far more guitars than John and Jimmy. Furthermore you could hire a new team of luthiers today and continue making Epis exactly as they did in the 30s.
If you were to go shopping for a 1956 Fender Stratocaster today, you'd easily pay $20k. Double that for a 1957-1960 Les Paul.
Rudy has pretty good prices according to my research. He also has some fairly unique examples. If someone was truly interested, I would bet he'd treat you well.
We can also compare these guitars to Cremona-made violins/violas/celli/basses like Stradivari, Amalfi, or Guarneri del Jesu. These are $200 million easy.
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"If you were to go shopping for a 1956 Fender Stratocaster today, you'd easily pay $20k. Double that for a 1957-1960 Les Paul."
Yeah, but more like double that for the Strat and 10 times plus for a Burst
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That's beyond my comprehension, more like in, or on, the Elon Musk Starcruiser to Mars territory! Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Rudy came out of his office at the 48th St. store when he heard me playing some jazz.
When I told him I had a '35 D'A, he took me back to his office, and told me, "You know I like the way John made his guitars."
Then he offered to trade me a Pat Martino solid body L5 for my D'A. After playing a Hondo and a Squire professionally, and then getting a Borys B-120, I felt like he was trying to take advantage of me, and was annoyed.I was back to being a hollow body player then, and didn't want to go back to solid bodies.
Now that I think about it, he might have been right about the PM L-5 being a better fit for my body than the D'A, because I'm playing a guitar like that now, but I don't think they were anywhere worth the same amount of money back then.
I don't trust any of those guitar guys. Mandolin Bros. offered my father $1,000 for it at a guitar show, and told him it was a POS.
That guy that calls himself the Guitar Dr. offered him $900 for it, and also told him it was a POS. Carlo Greco offered me a trade for one of his semi-hollow body guitars for it. I understood that the Greco was a more practical guitar for contemporary music, but again, the monetary value didn't seem equivalent. The guitar always gets different reactions from different people.
Jack Wilkins played it, and called it "the best guitar in the world". Bucky fell in love with it, and played the shit out of it.
I'll probably wind up dying with it, and have them use the wood for my coffin.
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