Selmer Guitars - Like wearing a costume?

[archtopeddy]

the guy on the right is my favorite in all the videos he s grooving like a moth#$#^&&

If you mean in the Bireli video, that's Hono Winterstein on rhythm guitar... a modern master of the la pompe style.

[Littlemark]

If you want that sound, you need to play those guitars.
If you want to play surf music, you need a real reverb tank.
You can ape lots of sounds, but they won't be perfect. Most audience won't hear the difference. But most audiences can SEE the difference. Sad but true.

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing a costume. I think it is a good practice to always dress better than your audience. Even if you are an "artist" focused on your art, you are on stage to entertain and put on a show. The visuals are part of the show.

All that being said. If you want to play gypsy jazz and you don't have a selmac guitar, who cares. Play it anyway.
(Until you become series about the genre, or any other).

[Littlemark]

I should note I am a stickler for tone. If your tone/sound is good, I could listen to you play the same note all night. Conversely, if you have awful or an inappropriate sound I can't listen to someone play for very long, I don't care how good they are.

I have a selmac guitar and I've jammed with some people who only had a flat top guitar. It was not fun, it just sounded wrong (especially on rhythm). Also, their is a volume disparity between selmacs and flat tops.

An archtop is a much better choice to play gypsy jazz on than a flat top.


And once again, play what you have who cares? (Aside from me and my tone preference)

fantastic playing but I can't listen to it.

[croth]

Owners of Selmer-type flattops: do you play any other styles of music on it? Do you feel like you can only play 30's jazz on this guitar? Any self-consciousness when you pull out this axe?

Thanks.

I'm a little late to this thread but I thought, to keep the record straight, that someone might mention that "Selmer-type" guitars are not flattops. They are actually arched-tops. The difference between what most of us know as "archtop" guitars and a gypsy-jazz style guitar is that the arch in the GJ guitar is achieved through a technique of bending a straight piece of wood as opposed to carving it out, violin style. This bend is known as a "Pliage".

Sometimes the backs are arched as well, just as with standard archtop guitars, though flat backs are more common, I believe, with the GJ guitars.

Couple the top arch with floating bridges and tailpieces and you have something much closer to an "archtop" jazz guitar than a flattop guitar.

Don't be fooled by the small oval hole that makes them look more like a flattop guitar. That's just cosmetic.

In response to Thoughtfree's original question, Selmer style guitars produce a drier, sharper, less sustaining tone than a flattop. The guitar's design is part of what achieves that swing rhythm and quicker attack on solos that GJ players want than you can get with a flattop guitar. Of course, players like Tommy Emmanuel can create an exception to any rule... :-)

Caveat: I am no expert in these things. Corrections or additions to what I've said here are welcome.

[bohemian46]

I recall from my Sel-Mac book that the guitars were designed to be made quickly and inexpensively, production labor, not necessarily "luthiers". . Though Gypsy Jazz may have been concurrent, it appears the guitars were not specifically designed for Gypsy Jazz. The players chose the guitar, the maker did not choose the players.

I enjoyed the stringswinger video, especially the dreadnaught.

A duo from Holland called SEPHORA (I have a copy) about 15 years ago recorded their first CD on two mid/low level Martin D-18 style dreads. Very good in my opinion.

My memory says that Elios Ferre (sp) first played flamenco negras, not Sel-Macs.

Michael Dunn of BC Canada made some very unusual and fine interpretations of Sel-Macs and Favinos... he himself used them for more than Gypsy Jazz. And other players have used them for other styles as well.

J.P. Bat ( batzic on youtube ) played many fine tunes in his own style on an inexpensive D-hole Sel Mac.

I am a fan of Lulo Rheinhardt who uses nylon string guitars the majority of the time and does use Sel Macs in more than Gypsy Jazz.

When I see a player with a Sel-Mac guitar I wrongly, or rightly, will believe he or she is going to play Gypsy Jazz which I enjoy. When they play other than GJ I am delighted.

I see the guitar as an accoutrement, and/or part of a uniform. The guitar loses that attention when played well, then it is just an instrument. Same goes for 000s or "A" style mandolins in Bluegrass.

As mentioned by others the Ciganos have a very good reputation for being inexpensive and often more of an "authentic" sound than more expensive units. This was actually said/written by Michael the owner, operator of Django Books, purveyor of all things Gypsy Jazz to include guitars.

Were I to buy a GJ guitar, I would buy a short scale, 1 7/8ths nut, D hole .. of a mid high quality. I do not play Gypsy Jazz. Perhaps some day.

[croth]

The ONLY musician I have to impress today is the musician I was yesterday.

I LOVED this. Thanks for posting it!

[SierraTango]

I'm a little late to this thread but I thought, to keep the record straight, that someone might mention that "Selmer-type" guitars are not flattops. They are actually arched-tops. The difference between what most of us know as "archtop" guitars and a gypsy-jazz style guitar is that the arch in the GJ guitar is achieved through a technique of bending a straight piece of wood as opposed to carving it out, violin style. This bend is known as a "Pliage".

Sometimes the backs are arched as well, just as with standard archtop guitars, though flat backs are more common, I believe, with the GJ guitars.

Couple the top arch with floating bridges and tailpieces and you have something much closer to an "archtop" jazz guitar than a flattop guitar.

Don't be fooled by the small oval hole that makes them look more like a flattop guitar. That's just cosmetic.

In response to Thoughtfree's original question, Selmer style guitars produce a drier, sharper, less sustaining tone than a flattop. The guitar's design is part of what achieves that swing rhythm and quicker attack on solos that GJ players want than you can get with a flattop guitar. Of course, players like Tommy Emmanuel can create an exception to any rule... :-)

Caveat: I am no expert in these things. Corrections or additions to what I've said here are welcome.

I mentioned Pliage in my reply to the OP. Post #11.

[joe2758]

I only practice, study, and play (as best I can) standard bop, but I would get one of these in a heartbeat and just play bop on it.

[croth]

I mentioned Pliage in my reply to the OP. Post #11.

I saw your reply AFTER I had written mine! Sorry, but sometimes I don't have the time to read through an entire thread before I respond to something that I feel needs responding to. :-) Good catch by you on mentioning the pliage.

I think, partly because of their overall cosmetic look, that GJ guitars are often thought to be flattops. Actually, I think they are probably closer to archtop guitars in their purpose and function, though they are generally designed to be acoustically louder. In any case, the pliage (as you mentioned) is an arch and I believe is designed to give the top more strength.

However, the poster who wrote that the guitars were built first and the GJ players then made them their instrument of choice is more than likely correct. So who knows what purpose Selmer and Maccaferri had in mind for them when they built them?

I wonder what luthiers have to say about the bracing techniques of GJ guitars compared to both archtops and flattops?

[mr. beaumont]

Well, the original Selmer Maccaferri guitar-- the "short scale" D hole, was intended to be a nylon string, a classical guitar!

Of course, history happens

I honestly use mine now as just my main acoustic. If I'm hanging around or playing the guitar on the couch, it's probably the SelMac. Actually, other flattops sound weak to me, especially in the treble. I've been spoiled...and that's by an inexpensive Cigano!

[bohemian46]

Looks like there was no pliage on the Concert model.. unnecessary.

Note that the vast majority of modern "Sel-Macs" have no pliage. Those that do seem to be considerably more expensive. Many
players of considerable skill and fame play non pliage instruments. Wrong costume ? : )