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I like playing and singing swing jazz on my ordinary electric-acoustic flattop guitars. I'm no virtuoso but I can swing pretty hard, and people like to hear me.
Sometimes I think about buying a "Django" or "Selmer" style guitar. But in a way, it seems kinda like using a striped "EVH" style electric guitar to play 80s-style heavy rock. Like one is wearing a costume, playing this design of guitar more for the look than any other reason.
Owners of Selmer-type flattops: do you play any other styles of music on it? Do you feel like you can only play 30's jazz on this guitar? Any self-consciousness when you pull out this axe?
Thanks.
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02-08-2019 08:22 AM
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I actually play mine all the time-- it's become my preferred acoustic guitar.
The Django stuff sounds "right" on it, for sure, and once you play one, the Django stuff starts to sound "not so right" on other guitars.
But I like it for just playing any type of jazz acoustically, really. There's a great forcefulness to the treble strings, which I really think is probably just balance...the thin strings get swallowed up and leads sound plinky and weak on other acoustics to me now.
And the D hole models (with the almost classical width nut) are really nice for fingerpicking. And (archtop purists look away) I prefer the tone for playing acoustic solo stuff, as there's more warmth to the bottom end.
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I believe if you walk out on stage with a manouche guitar or a EVH striped guitar, you better be able to deliver the goods or you'll be viewed as a poseur.
Originally Posted by Thoughtfree
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By whom? If you're trying to impress other musicians, stop. Civilians won't care, and nothing will save you from the unfavorable opinions of either camp if you don't have the goods, regardless of the instrument you choose. Try one, and if you like it, buy it and use it. Originally Posted by DRS
To me, nothing sounds like a GJ guitar, and they can cut it for bluegrass, too. Spend a little more up front is my advice. I got an Altamira used w/ pickup for about 1k after having a $500 Gitane for a few weeks. Night and day in terms of tone an playability.
FWIW, I am almost strictly a rhythm player in the style, and as Jeff says, I have a hard time not using my Altimira now that I am used to the sound.Last edited by andrew42; 02-08-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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Nooooooooo. Originally Posted by Thoughtfree
It is a great and unique guitar technology. Not a costume.
Try different picks and finger technique.
Consider VERY seriously the D vs. the petit bouche.
Man, you can play ANYTHING on a remarkably loud and expressive D-hole macaferri guitar. Just ease up a little so you do not break any windows in the room.
It is nothing at all like an EVH costume. It is simply another way to lay out strings on a soundboard for a fantastic effect.
If you happen to find it inspiring in a pre-amplifier (Ok, that is confusing) way, I see that as a good thing not a limiting thing.
Play folk, gypsy swing, 80’s pop hits at a local open mike, serious Bop and post-bop. Everything.
It is just a guitar. I just happens to be a remarkably expressive and loud one (when you want it to be).
Let someone else play in costume.
Get the guitar and play everything.
No, seriously - use manouche strings, but consider the .011 set to give a little more fullness. Then calm down and ease up with the right hand and notice how you can make absolutely anything work on this box.
And if you really want to try something different and fun, lay a set of Martin “11.5” silk and steel on there, and wonder why anyone would ever need any other acoustic. Not for everyone, but really, try it sometime.
In my opinion.
Chris
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The ONLY musician I have to impress today is the musician I was yesterday. Originally Posted by DRS
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BBGuitar, that's definitely worth a like.
RE: cheap vs. expensive-- I think the Altamiras are as good as you can get in the budget bracket. Although, I'm playing a Cigano, and with a good setup, it plays and sounds better than the much "nicer" Gitane Jorgenson model I previously owned.
I don't know about the Cigano oval hole, but I wanted a short scale D hole, and the Cigano is a pretty cool choice in that niche.
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Here is some fun fusion of Manouche and modern sounds from TV 3 in Catalunya.
It is more the raspy manouche sound, but you are far from limited to that sound.
Just say yes to all the Catalan prompts. There will be some Catalan advertising, sorry.
And get to Plaça Reial as soon as possible for tapas and the best hang-out spot on earth.
Biel Ballester - say it as “Bee-ell Buy-a-stair”
Biel Ballester - Jazz a l'estudi
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Correction: I had a Gitane, not a Cigano. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Which is crazy as the Ciganos are cheaper guitars, but I do think a lot of folks like them better... Originally Posted by andrew42
But OP, if you can swing an Altamira, they're soooo cool. Now those oval hole models get it right.
And, something to look out for if you like the Altamira sound-- Manouche "Latcho Drom" guitars are pretty much the same guitars, but they have a fatter, more vintage style neck. If you like that sort of thing, they are awesome, and a used one could be quite budget friendly.
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IMHO it comes down to the right tool for the job. The unique tone of the Sel-Mac guitars suits the Gypsy Jazz rep, also remembering that many of those songs in the rep came from the American Songbook. I own and gig with a 1998 Dupont MC-30 14 fret and don't feel like I need to light up a Gitane and grow a pencil thin mustache when I play it. It's simply a great guitar. Originally Posted by Thoughtfree
You may want to research the term "Pliage" as not all GJG's are considered flattops. Also note that the standard for these guitars is solid top and laminated back and sides, however some like my Dupont have solid B&S which gives another spin on the tone-somewhat more mellow.
Once you get the bug, it goes on and on-picks, strings, pickups (I have a Bigtone in mine but seldom use it).
Embrace the style, work on the rep and soon you will looking for fancy spectator shoes.
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So what if it is a costume? I’m not saying it is. But playing and listening to music is not a mechanical exercise. Psychology and culture are integral elements in playing music.
Getting into costume always influences my playing. Who doesn’t play better dressed the part, in a beautiful stage under a spot light, with a hushed audience? Or channel your inner Steve Jones with a beat up Les Paul Jr and some tattered jeans in front of a drunk and rowdy crowd?
A manouche guitar evokes expectations from you and your audience. Why not enjoy that? And we all know you can’t have too many guitars. ;-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I've always made it a point NOT to don a costume for the few Django-style gigs I've done, I just follow my usual rule of dressing a step above the audience. It can get "scene-y" in these parts, lots of mediocre players who are quick to point out what someone is doing "inauthentically." That shit really gets on my nerves.
But I have done "costume" gigs, particularly when doing the old country stuff, and it's a heck of a lot of fun.
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The costume idea is an interesting one. On one hand, people have used costumes and masks not only to hide who they are as a whole, but hide their insecurities and be more free. They did studies with kids where they would wear masks and become more aggressive because there's a sense of protection, if by nothing more than a greater level of anonymity.
But this could be used for good as well, right? You could just as easily choose this guitar that is sort of entrenched in a public consciousness with one thing - the EVH-striped guitar - and use it to your strength, hiding whatever insecurities you have about stage presence or technical abilities and be freer with your playing, creating a better show.
This pops up sometimes with pedals and it is always interesting. The crazy expensive boutique pedals that are re-cased tube screamers and the owners that insist it makes them sound better and they play better as well (because they sound better). It becomes a magic bullet of a placebo and there's no harm in it. You can put whatever mojo you want on it and, if you believe in it enough, it could have real results like greater confidence that leads to a more relaxed vibe and then better playing.
Or it could be used to click your own brain into a groove. "This is my gypsy jazz guitar," and settle into that mode before you even start to strum/pick.
Alternatively, you could avoid looking at it as a costume as already suggested. It seems like you're never going to impress another guitarist and the crowd is (hopefully) more interested in the music than the tool used to create it. I'm sure they'll compliment the different aesthetic, but anything beyond that seems a bit much. And you can play anything you want on it because at the end of the day it is just a guitar.
Costume? Sure, if you want. Serious instrument that you'll put more thought into than anyone else? Certainly.
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Suiting-up has been a way to concentrate and focus for so many things. Suit-up to defend the goal at the World Cup, or play the local wedding. If it helps you bring your best, then that is just you doing what it takes to be the best you can be.
So whatever works for a particular person in a particular setting seems 100% fine to me.
And of course, refusing to suit-up is its own way of suiting-up.
We are humans, there is no escaping that.
To the OP: - Get the manouche guitar. You will be amazed at how versatile it can be. It is not actually a costume, but you can make it one if that works for you.
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For a lot of players, a Gypsy guitar is kind of a costume. These guitars are meant to be played with a certain technique (rest stroke picking) and when I watch the average American player use one of these guitars without the proper technique, all I hear is a weak sound (an amplified guitar, archtop or solidbody, would make those players sound better to be sure).
That said, played properly, these guitars excel at acoustic projection and can be used for any type of music where an acoustic guitar is preferred. I have owned many over the years and still have a 26 year old Dupont MD-20 which, truth be told, I use these days as a sort of costume. I use it when the gig calls for a Django tribute band. Most of my gigs are in noisy venues where some amplification is needed and these guitars do not amplify well. In addition, I find the 26.25 scale length a bit hampering to my technique. But if I had a gig where no amplification was allowed, the Gypsy guitar would be my choice (everyone else in the band would have to keep the volume down, while these guitars are loud, they are not as loud as a resonator guitar).
Many Gypsy guitars, especially the cheap ones, have lousy tone. Combined with the fact that most gadjo (non-Gypsy) players play them with bad technique, these guitars are out of favor with most of the guitar world. But a good example (I own one of those) played right (I have spent the time to learn to play it properly) makes these guitars quite worthy in the pantheon of the guitar world.
Here is a video of me playing my Gypsy guitar (unplugged) with Country music singer Ginny Mitchell:
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I think it depends on the context you're performing in. I've heard Bruce Forman do a killer "Nuages" on a regular old L5, but that's with his own trio. If you're looking to get gigs on the Manouche 'scene', having a guitar with similar acoustic properties to the instruments you'll be blending with is well worth considering. Just like if you're playing into a cranked Marshall stack, a single-pickup locking nut bolt-on makes a lot of sense, with or without the black and red stripes....
PK
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Take a great player and give them a great song and all the labelling stuff seems pretty silly. Originally Posted by paulkogut
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Willie Nelson has been playing country & western music for like 50 years on a classical guitar. With nylon strings. There are no rules.
That being said, when I want to "get my Vai/EVH on", I do pickup my old Charvel with compound neck radius, jumbo frets, and Floyd Rose bridge. I don't play blues on that guitar either, lol.
My Gretsch 6120 sees only rockabilly-ish through jazz-ish playing, no rock or blues on that guitar. Just doesn't feel right to me.
But my others- tele, strat... I play whatever I want to play.
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Which interestingly enough, he bought because it sounded more like Django to him! Originally Posted by ruger9
If you have 12 minutes or so, this video is super enjoyable. Willie's a national treasure.
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Oh believe me, I've seen it! I'm a big Willie fan, and yes he is! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
His playing is actually HIGHLY underrated, imo. It's not about the technique, it's about the melody, the soul, the MUSIC. There's only ONE Willie!
Altho I've read he bought it simply because his steel-string (a Martin I think?) was irreparable, and the shop offered him a good price on Trigger instead, then they took the pickup (for the Baldwin amp) that was in his old guitar & installed it in Trigger. I think (total guess on my part) he immediately discovered he had something "unique", as well as a rig that magically became "more than the sum of it's parts" (a happy accident), and stuck with it all these years.Last edited by ruger9; 02-09-2019 at 08:44 AM.
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It depends on your audience, but IMHO, most people, unless they're geeks like us, won't even know that you have a Django/Selmer guitar. Besides, why should you care? If you want that particular type of instrument, then by all means, get it and play it, no matter the genre!
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I'm with those that say it doesn't matter. If you want to play a Selmer-style guitar, just play it.
After all...
-- Does playing a Gibson ES-150 CC make you a Charlie Christian "costume"?
-- Does playing a Gibson L-5 Wes Mo make you a Wes Montgomery "costume"?
-- Does playing an Ibanez GB10 make you a George Benson "costume", or a Gibson Johnny Smith a Johnny Smith "costume"?
You get the idea.
Maybe the best thing to do is to play "Nuages" or "Manoir de mes Reves" on the EVH striped guitar. It'd probably sound pretty good!
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I play a variety of styles on mine (admittedly, not in public).
If I think of another instrument, say, saxophone or keyboard or trumpet - as a non-player I'd have no idea if the actual instrument someone is playing is synonymous with a particular player or style - they're just instruments. But I bet over on the trumpet board there's a debate along the lines of would you dare have a bent trumpet if you're not playing bebop (or whatever). If you like the instrument, play the instrument
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Yes, there's Trigger and there's Selmer 503. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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