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I really don't care which guitar or violin other people think sounds best. Maybe I have had a charmed life, but I can't recall (other than that first year in 1979 when I was learning) any fan or listener complaining that my guitar or guitar cord or tone capacitors sounded bad.
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01-11-2019 07:29 PM
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Oh BTW, a decent Baroque Guitar costs about 8,000 GBP (about 10,000 USD)
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Whoa. Thanks for the introduction to Baroque guitar. Eye opening.
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One of the things that matters on a prized instrument, in addition to how it sounds - is how it feels when you play it and how it inspires you. I've had cheap guitars that sounded great, but certainly didn't feel as good or inspired me as much as my most expensive ones.
Last edited by jorgemg1984; 01-12-2019 at 07:31 AM.
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Yay! I flipping love it.
Originally Posted by Greentone
Problem is I can’t now hear those pieces played with modern classical technique on modern instruments without feeling there’s something missing....
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It's almost more flamenco than classical. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Yeah I can hear that. The thing was the baroque guitar was a rhythm instrument in continuo groups, not just a solo voice, and often played dance music, so the same considerations apply.... plus - Spain!
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To address the OP - I am unsurprised that modern instruments are largely indistinguishable from their historic antecedents. They are, after all, the products of a clear lineage; Amati/Stradivari/Guarneri are limbs of the same family tree. Violin makers have been trying to equal or surpass the sonic qualities of these instruments for centuries at this point. The materials, design, and dimensions remain very similar, at least to the non-specialist. That the resulting instruments sound so similar should be cause for celebration. IMHO.
Last edited by citizenk74; 01-12-2019 at 03:02 PM. Reason: punctuation
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Of course this comment brings to mind the usual forum conversation about Gibson-mojo-has-never-been-reproduced-quite-right. If the new violin makers got Stradivarius down, where's the new 1928 L-5 ? Originally Posted by citizenk74
To address the OP - I am unsurprised that modern instruments are largely indistinguishable from their historic antecedents. They are, after all, the products of a clear lineage; Amati Stradivari/Guarneri are limbs of the same family tree. Violin makers have been trying to equal or surpass the sonic qualities of these instruments for centuries at this point. The materials, design, and dimensions remain very similar, at least to the non-specialist. That the resulting instruments sound so similar should be cause for celebration. IMHO.
On the topic of cost, I've been dipping my toe into flute world recently. The price of nice used Gibson ES-175 is roughly equivalent to a good intermediate student flute. The good stuff is $4K+. And the kicker is that flutes don't age well, gaining mojo and value along the way. Guitar players are lucky.
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I might point out that Stradivarius guitar is the last playable one in existence. I don’t know the market value, but in a sense it is more valuable than any of the violins.
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Really great playing - didn't expect that . Originally Posted by christianm77
Tones are beautiful but not one in a million instruments ...right ?
Hmmmm .....
Townhouse on the Beach or Stadivarius Guitar .......Stradivarius Guitar or Townhouse on the Beach......
Is there an original case also ?Last edited by Robertkoa; 01-13-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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I'm down with this as well as Longways. If the instrument feels really good, makes you happy and inspires you're playing, then it's totally worth the premium as long as you can afford it. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
For me personally (and possibly for classic soloists as well) how it sounds to me, and how I feel and interact with the instrument is more important than some barely perceptible difference in sound in the audience.
EG: Horowitz had his 9ft Steinway shipped on tour and only played it at 4:00 on Sundays after his personal tech guy tweaked it up. Did he do that for the audience? Yes, but probably not for how that particular instrument sounded in the seats. He wouldn't have been able to experience that anyway.
Note that I don't currently own a Gibson, a Steinway or a Strad...
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Legendary Stradivarius Loses to New Violins in Blind Tests
This links to an article with a little more detail about how the tests were conducted.
Here is a review article describing a series of tests.
Testing audiophile claims and myths | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org
There are some exceptions, but, mostly, the results seem to back up the skeptics.
Disclosure: I'm a skeptic, but I'm not immune to proof that I'm wrong. That said, I can't hear the difference between expensive cable and cheap cable of 8 or 12 feet. My hearing is less than perfect though. I did once taste complexity in a Chateau Lafite.
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I also don't own expensive guitars, my best guitar is a 1965 Guild X-500. But it's a very special guitar, that inspires me more than some cheap guitars I've had, no matter how good it is. Originally Posted by ccroft
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Thanks for the link RP. I didn't realize they were 'test driven.' I got bored with the video in the OP telling Strad history and didn't get far into it.
Note that I'm not saying that Strads are better and it's not hype. Just that musicians are quirky. If a player needs an over-priced instrument to feel comfortable then that's what will happen. As long as player and audience are happy and the financials work then it's worth it.
Music isn't science. Maybe they should do a test with the welder's glasses off? :)
It'd be interesting to know how many Strads are actually on tour.
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I used to go fishing in my Honda Accord and, somehow, felt funny when I got to the fisherman's motel and everybody else had a pickup or an SUV. The question is, if I had a Ford F150, would I have caught more fish?
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As a student of history, I think one of the real draws to Stradivarius violins is the chance to get close to one of the founders of the instrument. I would imagine it being something like owning an original Torres guitar.
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Yes. That would be the cool thing about playing the Stradivarius Guitar.
As was mentioned earlier - I think most of the listening tests were only comparing the Stradivarius against other valuable world class violins.
If Stradivarius had 20 trained workers and there were tens of thousands of Stradivari
made over 20 years and there were 80% of them around today with same build and tones- the prices would still be high but probably not in the millions of $ each.
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Where's the mic? How was the sound processed, if at all? It sounds too good. Originally Posted by christianm77
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I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but very few players who play Strads actually own their instruments. These instruments are generally owned by foundations or rich music lovers who loan them out to talented concert artists. Originally Posted by Klatu
And then the players do things like leave it in the Taxi because - hello! - they are f**king musicians lol.
Cabdriver Thanked for Returning a Stradivarius - The New York Times
That Strad guitar BTW has been doing the rounds - you can see it in the hands of quite a few baroque specialist players.
I'd be interested to know how many of the Torres guitars are still in playable shape - I remember reading that guitars tend to age worse than violins because they are made of softer wood etc...
It's terrifying though. I was hiring a lute, made by a well known English maker, and I was terrified just taking it out of its case... But professional classical musicians play really ****ing valuable instruments. It's normal to them.
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It's the same with collectable guitars.
Much of the price is its extrinsic value (value as investment, or collectable item, limited supply), and only part of it is its intrinsic value (value because of how good it is as an instrument, compared to other instrumetns at same or different price points).
I guess a stradivarius is to some extent a selling point. The programme note usually includes a brief bio of the soloists and if it says they play a stradivarius a "recreational concert guest" reads that it means that the soloist is in the top league. If the bio would mention the name of one of the best modern violin makers, it would leave a different impression on the average concert guest who probably recognizes less than 5 violin makers' names.
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... and all the case-candy? I want my signed inspection card. Originally Posted by Robertkoa
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