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In a blindfold test by 17 professional violinists between Stradivarius, Guarneri, and new violins, 7 couldn't tell the difference, 7 were incorrect, and only 3 chose correctly.
Scientific tests have indicated no significant difference acoustically between Stradivarius violins and other much less expensive quality violins.
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01-11-2019 07:26 AM
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This test objectively proves that many professional violinists practice hours every day to achieve the point where they're able to make any violin in their hands sound like beautiful music.
I'd be more interested in seeing a test of sixteen blindfolded professional violinists seated in a hall, listening to a seventeenth blindfolded violinist play various instruments.
There's more to "the Stradivari sound" than what happens six inches away from the instrument.
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Indeed, just like people trying to convince me that $ 10 loudspeaker cables are just as good as $ 1000+ cables. Or that you can't hear the difference between flac and MP3. I hear the differences, perhaps some people don't.
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Originally Posted by Drumbler
I am skeptical that "scientific tests" can capture everything that a human ear can.
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Of course you want to believe.
It's human nature.
Even scientific proof won't dissuade you from your beliefs.
Personally, I believe the earth is flat and man never landed on the moon.
Don't try to convince me different. This is what i believe.
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I'm sure they can. But the non-Stradivarious violins used in this test are some of the best examples of the modern violins. Their prices are in the 100K dollars range I believe. So not quite "any" violins. Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
Many of the Stradivarious's are unplayable and just museum pieces. Some are designed very differently than modern violins which makes them not suitable for professional use. They are for collectors.
I look at this test differently. I find these very old Stratdivarious violins still sounding as good as the very best of modern violins very impressive (as oppose to the other way around). Yes aging improves tone, but to an extend. After 100+ years, aging means deterioration most likely. These violins are way past their prime yet still hold their own against the best of today.Last edited by Tal_175; 01-11-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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What people perceive (not believe) can be different from what is measured in a lab situation. I don't know the methodological rigour of the experimental designs referred to in the YouTube video. But it is true that modern violins can come very close to a Stradivarius. Which is excellent news, of course. Whatever you believe. Originally Posted by Drumbler
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All I know is any time I think nice guitars are expensive, I just look at what people pay for "orchestral" instruments and I feel a lot better.
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Good point, though it would be interesting to see a similar discussion about what people are willing to pay for a Gibson L5. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Also just to be clear this test is not about measuring sensor data in a lab "scientifically" and drawing conclusions from it. It's trained humans and their highly developed ears deciding in an setup intended to minimize or eliminate confirmation bias and various psychological tricks brains do when one comes to a test with per-conceived ideas.
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Come to think of it: is there one single Stradivarius around in its original state? No repairs? Never been taken apart for repairs? No modfications in approximately 250 years?
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True, which underscores that methodological rigour is crucial. Originally Posted by Tal_175
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I have a friend who plays cello professionally in a major symphony orchestra. Her cello is significantly more expensive than any of my guitars, but when I did the math, I realized that I spent more on gear (guitars, amps, pedals etc) in the last 10 years than she spend on her only cello. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
That said she spends about 800 dollars a year on strings (400 dollars/set).
Also I didn't really "spent" the money. I converted it into gear form. I can sell all my gear in a couple of weeks and get all the money back.
Most spent 10-20 grands on car insurance every 10 years. That money ain't coming back.
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Ugh, car insurance.
I just got penalized for using it. Our cars needed roadside assistance 3 times in a year (a flat with a stripped nut, a dead battery in the middle of nowhere, and one actual breakdown) and my insurance agency just informed me that they'll be cutting this service, which we paid for. Nice.
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These two (The Lady Blunt and The Messiah) are supposed to be the closest. Originally Posted by TOMMO
Lady Blunt Stradivarius - Wikipedia
Messiah Stradivarius - Wikipedia
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I hope you learned your lesson about collecting from insurance you paid for to protect you! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I was also cancelled by an auto insurance company after having a major accident.
Just last year I got my revenge after switching back to them after about 15 years with another company when my daughter totalled out a car right after I switched back to them.
So far they haven't cancelled me again...yet.
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Yes, insurance. The thing they tell you that you MUST have, and you pay a bunch of money for it, but don't you dare use it.
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Dietmar Machold made millions from dealing in high end violins (Stradivarius Amati Guaneri etc) before ending up convicted of fraud,
My favorite has to be Rudy Kurniawan, also made millions selling idiots wine he made in his basement...
In Vino Duplicitas: The Rise and Fall of a Wine Forger Extraordinaire eBook: Peter Hellman: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store
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Hidden behind this test is the huge $$$$$ price tag debate. If you remove the price tag from the Strad you would have removed all of the debate of whether a Strad is "hype". The hype comes not from the sound but from "is any old piece of wood worth that much?"
It is not about sound; it is really about money. Without the price tag, nobody cares. Lots of old violins out there but nobody cares to test them because they don't have the high price tags.
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I hope that is not how health insurance works... Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Look, let's refocus this a little:
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The one constant is the price tag: it keeps going up. Originally Posted by TOMMO
A: David Hockney who? B: His painting just sold for $85 million. A: Waaah! He must be a great painter.
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Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
The second study she did was similar to what you mention:
Link: Stradivarius Violins Aren’t Better Than New Ones: Round TwoThey ran this experiment in two Parisian venues—the home of a family of professional string players, and a 300-seat concert hall that’s well-known for its acoustics. In the hall, the soloists could ask for a piano accompaniment or for feedback from a listener of their choice. They could even ask one of the team to play the violins so they could check the sound from elsewhere in the hall.
The team gave the violins four points every time they were chosen as a top pick, three points for second place, and so on; they deducted a point every time an instrument was rejected.
Although the soloists varied in their tastes, two new violins consistently scored the most points, with an old Stradivarius tailing in third place. Overall, the new violins collectively scored 35 points and the old ones scored 4—a six-fold difference. Fritz writes, “We can find no plausible scoring system by which the old fare any better.”
The concert hall made little difference either. Some violins rose in the ranks and others fell, but the new ones maintained their lead over the old. “There is certainly no evidence here to support the belief that Old Italian violins come into their own in concert halls whereas new ones fall behind,” wrote Fritz.
In the final 12 minutes of the experiment, the team provided the soloists with three violins—their own, their top pick, and the best-rated instrument from the opposite age category. Their job was to rate each instrument according to six qualities: overall quality, articulation, timbre, playability, projection, and loudness. They rated the old and new violins similarly in terms of overall quality, but gave the new ones higher scores in all the other categories. The concert hall closed the gap slightly, but not enough to turn the tide in favour of the old.
I should also think that the violinist in his playing posture would have a better vantage-point for hearing the tiny nuances that might not even get out to the wider auditorium.
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Good lute technique on the Strad clip.
(Although I don't recall rasqueado in lute.)
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It's basically the point of baroque guitar. (Well that an the campenallas and Originally Posted by Greentone
left hand legato.) Check this out:
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