Gibson ES-175 Choices?

[rpjazzguitar]

I’m guessing that in the case of Herb that you mean that you don’t care for his 175 tone, either with the P90 or after that pickup was replaced with a patent number Gibson humbucker. Is that correct?

By now, I’ve played many ‘50s ES-175s, ES-150s, and ES-300s. Some of them have been quite good. But IMO there is something special about Herb’s ES-175 still, even with the humbucker. I suspect the same is true for Jim Hall’s, but I’ve never had a first hand experience with that one.

I'm thinking of Herb with the humbucker. Great player, no question about that. But, the 175 tone just strikes me as bland. The players whose tones I love include Wes and Kenny Burrell. I love Chico's tone with the 175. I like Jack Wilkins with the Comins GCS-1. Vic Juris, but I can't recall the guitar. I loved Metheny's Bright Size Life tone, but that was the Lexicons. Many others I'm not thinking of right now.

[jbear]

I get it if some don't dig 175's, but...I do. Tonally, I like Pat and Kreisberg...I'm a little modern leaning in that regard. Considered an Ibanez Metheny, but I've always wanted one of these, so...datz dat.

[Lobomov]

Ibanez Metheny.

The PM100 is the bang for the buck option .. They go a bit cheaper than an ES175 and sound great


The PM120 is more it's own tho and I haven't tried the newer PM200

[Longways to Go]

My take on the 175 is pretty simple.

Either you got one or you don't.

I feel lucky cause I do.

[Stringswinger]

My take on the 175 is pretty simple.

Either you got one or you don't.

I feel lucky cause I do.

Exactly. And datz dat.

[lawson-stone]

This is a (small) minority view, I suspect, but it's really what I think.

The only tone I've ever loved from a 175 was Jim Hall's, and that was with P90's.

Other than that, I think 175's sound bland and (ducking) I don't get what the fuss is about.
Obviously, I haven't heard everybody.

I love Joe Pass's playing, but not his 175 tone. Same with Herb Ellis and others.

Chico Pinheiro played a 175 for awhile. He sounded great, but he sounds better with the Benedetto. I hear more character in the Benedetto's tone.

Pat Metheny got a good sound, but his tone was so processed it isn't clear that the 175 really mattered.

I don't feel the same way about the L5. I think the L5 is a much better sounding guitar.

If I wanted an archtop and I could handle the 25.5 scale, I'd be looking in the direction of an L5 or comparable instrument.

I don't agree, but I like how you express this. I love ES175 tone, but I totally get what you are saying here.

[takauya]

Now, what Gibson needs to have in their catalog is the "affordable" single P90 ES-175.

[Stringswinger]

This is a (small) minority view, I suspect, but it's really what I think.

The only tone I've ever loved from a 175 was Jim Hall's, and that was with P90's.

Other than that, I think 175's sound bland and (ducking) I don't get what the fuss is about.
Obviously, I haven't heard everybody.

I love Joe Pass's playing, but not his 175 tone. Same with Herb Ellis and others.

Chico Pinheiro played a 175 for awhile. He sounded great, but he sounds better with the Benedetto. I hear more character in the Benedetto's tone.

Pat Metheny got a good sound, but his tone was so processed it isn't clear that the 175 really mattered.

I don't feel the same way about the L5. I think the L5 is a much better sounding guitar.

If I wanted an archtop and I could handle the 25.5 scale, I'd be looking in the direction of an L5 or comparable instrument.

Rick, when you and I first met and played together in Berkeley, CA (39 years ago....wow), I was playing my first ES-175 (a cherry sunburst 1970 model) and you were playing a solid body L-5 (bet you wish you still had that one, eh?). We were both using Polytone amps (as was our bass player Art Silver). I liked your tone better than mine at the time, but have since made some progress to get better tone out of my fingers (you are a few years older than me so I am thinking that you had a head start on developing good tone). I now have an L-5 along with my three ES-175's and frankly do not sound very different on any of them (tone really is in the fingers). The short scale of the ES-175 is easier for me to play and the ES-175's are more feedback resistant (not to mention weather resistant) and make, IMO, a better "gigging" guitar than the L-5. But putting my tone aside, I think the tone that Joe Pass got on the "for Django" album and the "Intercontinental" album is jazz guitar tone at it's very finest. Both albums were done with an ES-175.

So for me the idea that the ES-175 does not have good tone simply does not compute. YMMV

[Alter]

For me these two, the L5 and the 175 are so iconic in the history of the idiom that i love both so much. If money and mostly being left handed wasn't an issue, these would probably be my two jazz guitars for life! I own neither unfortunately, although i have a good L5 type archtop.

What are the opinions on going for an older 175 though? Wasn't construction a bit different and the sound a bit more acoustic in older 175s, or does that matter more for solid wood instruments?

[jbear]

I'm making an offer on a blonde '97. Found a ' 14 VOS, but the tuners have been replaced and seller does not know why. Also has filled in strap holes. That wouldn't bother me...bored out tuner holes would. Anyone think differently? Let me know.

[Stringswinger]

I'm making an offer on a blonde '97. Found a ' 14 VOS, but the tuners have been replaced and seller does not know why. Also has filled in strap holes. That wouldn't bother me...bored out tuner holes would. Anyone think differently? Let me know.

My Blonde 97 is my number 1. Here is a Pic of me and her together:

My 2017 59RI is also a great guitar, but bored out tuner holes would be a deal killer for me.....

[jbear]

The shop that has it says Stewmac replacements done by original owner and that is all they are saying/know. If was my shop...I'd unscrew one of those suckas and look. Who knows...might be perfect but I'm not willing to take the chance. What I'd really like to know is why would the owner replace the stock with Stewies. I know they make decent stuff, but if you don't want Grovers or some sort of locking tuners...why do it? Damage? Mistreatment? Too iffy for me. Shame...I dig the look.

[jbear]

But wait...a very sweet 06 has wandered onto the scene!

[Gitterbug]

Every time someone raises a question about ES-175, there's a myriad of answers and comments. In a way, it's like commenting the yardstick instead of whatever is put against it. Yet, not all 175s are equal. I had bad experiences with two 2004-2005 samples. A third one was ok, except for the frets which ate into my fingers. Years later, I fell for a blonde 1959 VOS, made in 2014, which was sold at a substantial discount as B-stock. Turned out there indeed was a scratch -- in the case. This guitar has put my other archtops, including a Benedetto Bravo, to eternal rest in their coffins.

[lawson-stone]

Every time someone raises a question about ES-175, there's a myriad of answers and comments. In a way, it's like commenting the yardstick instead of whatever is put against it. Yet, not all 175s are equal. I had bad experiences with two 2004-2005 samples. A third one was ok, except for the frets which ate into my fingers. Years later, I fell for a blonde 1959 VOS, made in 2014, which was sold at a substantial discount as B-stock. Turned out there indeed was a scratch -- in the case. This guitar has put my other archtops, including a Benedetto Bravo, to eternal rest in their coffins.

It's funny how the VOS1959 ES175 has had a hard time gaining a following. Mine was a rather long courtship, but I fell in love, and fell hard, eventually. The lighter construction is wonderful. The tone is thicker, but without losing any high-end. It's interesting that the Epiphone ES175 Premium, which many people consider the very best ES175 "clone" out there, is modeled more on the VOS1959 model, including the lower weight.

I also find the workmanship on my VOS better than on either of the 2016 ES175 "Figured" models I own. they are wonderful, but the VOS is still, in my view, the better built guitar.

[jbear]

Hoping this 97 comes through. I have asked the VOS dude if he's willing to pull a tuner for me. We shall see.

[2bornot2bop]

My Blonde 97 is my number 1. Here is a Pic of me and her together:

My 2017 59RI is also a great guitar, but bored out tuner holes would be a deal killer for me.....

Ladykiller!

[jbear]

Okay...in total turnaround...I ended up grabbing the blonde VOS...bored headstock and all. Everything else was original and it was so far under market price...couldn't say no. I'm bu it to play, so... I'll let you know when it gets here...if you're interested. Thanks so much for all of your help with this!

[skiboyny]

Okay...in total turnaround...I ended up grabbing the blonde VOS...bored headstock and all. Everything else was original and it was so far under market price...couldn't say no. I'm bu it to play, so... I'll let you know when it gets here...if you're interested. Thanks so much for all of your help with this!

The 59 vos is a solid choice. Great sounding guitar! Best of luck.

[rpjazzguitar]

Marc,

I remember that night well.

Art recorded us and we had trouble telling ourselves apart. Well, at least that's how I remember it.

I do wish I had that L5S! It was stolen in a home break-in a few years later.

The Joe Pass album I was thinking of was Tudo Bem, which is my favorite of his albums. But, not for his tone which I thought was too dry and sterile. That didn't stop me from loving the music and his playing.

These things are all taste, emotion and the skill of the player. I have no doubt that many, certainly including you, sound great on a 175. That said, when I think of sublime, I think of Wes, Jim Hall with the P90 175, Kenny Burrell on Guitar Forms, (which I believe was an L5), Ted Greene playing that Tele in the solo gig video and then some players in other styles whose tones I love, like Mark Knopfler and Carlos Santana.

Those are the players who made me want to buy whatever they were using to get that sound. And, of course, no store actually sells all of what you need for that.

[wmachine]

This is a (small) minority view, I suspect, but it's really what I think.

The only tone I've ever loved from a 175 was Jim Hall's, and that was with P90's.

Other than that, I think 175's sound bland and (ducking) I don't get what the fuss is about.
Obviously, I haven't heard everybody.

I love Joe Pass's playing, but not his 175 tone. Same with Herb Ellis and others.

Chico Pinheiro played a 175 for awhile. He sounded great, but he sounds better with the Benedetto. I hear more character in the Benedetto's tone.

Pat Metheny got a good sound, but his tone was so processed it isn't clear that the 175 really mattered.

I don't feel the same way about the L5. I think the L5 is a much better sounding guitar.

If I wanted an archtop and I could handle the 25.5 scale, I'd be looking in the direction of an L5 or comparable instrument.

There is a late model with P90s, the 2015 1954 Reissue ES-175D Dark Burst VOS. MHS P90s. Will be hard to find, supposedly only 50 made.