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Okay...there are none of these locally, so I am relegated to online. That being said...there are a ton on the market, and they are varied in price and style, so...not being able to play them...I'd love to hear some experienced voices. I read a lot...have played a few (not for a long time)...know a little. I have some choices and what I catching my attention currently are:
-Current (2015 I think) 59 VOS
-Late 90's (97-ish)
-Late 70's (78-79)
*All for around the same prices in my range.
*I don't like skinny necks. Fat to medium depth is cool.
*No tailpiece preference...do you have one?
*Mild bridge preference...although I am slightly partial to TOM's.
*PUP's seem all over the place with these...I don't know if there are any to avoid.
*VOS...no strap button? Do you (players of these) just add them?
Feel free to add anything you think I am missing. They are returnable, but solid due diligence on my part will reduce the need for that PITA process.
I am grateful to all in advance!
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12-21-2018 10:53 AM
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I have a VOS1959 ES175 and love it. It does have an end-pin (removable) which functions as a strap button, but it tends to slip out so I wrapped mine with masking tape to give it more friction. I love this guitar. It's noticeably lighter than "standard" ES175s. My VOS weighs 6 lbs 7 oz, while my 2016 ES175 "figured" weighs 7 lbs 12 oz. The VOS has skinnier frets. Some hate that, I notice no difference except that the fret-work on the VOS is much better than the fret-work on BOTH of the "Figured" models I own. The Figured models have an over-agreesive bevel on the frets that makes your finger tend to slide off and "tink" the note. I repaired it by slightly moving the nut-slot for the 1st string. The fret-work on the VOS is perfect.
I have both wood bridges (VOS) and TOM (Figured). I like the sound of both. I've kept each guitar with the bridge it shipped on. I don't have two different ES175 types in order for them to sound the same! I like the different flavorings of each.
The necks on these are medium thickness, and I find them very comfortable. For comparison, I have a 1954 Gibson L50 that has a somewhat chunkier neck, and I have 3 Epiphone jazz boxes (modern) that have a slimmer neck, which I also like. I think for the present I have a wide range of tolerance for neck thickness.
I have no preference on the tailpieces, my guitars have both and I never notice that. I have heard rumors and anecdotes that the "zigzag" tailpieces break at the hinge sometimes. I don't know how common that is.
There is also some anecdotal claims that Gibson archtops from the custom shop from around 2010-2015 (??) have a tendency for color to bleed into the binding. Again, I don't know how common this is, and I also hear (rumor) that it was fixed around 2016. Vinny could tell you more, I think.
On Pickups, know that after about 2017 or so, the VOS changed from the 57 Classic to the MHS pickup. I can't say anything about whether that was an improvement or not. I generally hear good things about the MHS but I have never played one.
Originally Posted by jbear
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That is hugely helpful! Thank you!
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My very personal approach buying guitars. Do not buy a guitar if you cannot try it first (unless you are investing). You need to see if that particular guitar speaks to you no matter what others say.
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This is wise, but actually every single archtop I presently own was bought sight-unseen from either forum members (2) or CME (2), Reverb (?), and even eBay. I have been lucky, I'm sure, but I have been happy with every transaction. Originally Posted by Rufes
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Well...yes...I agree in principle, but...none around here to try. I've been through probably 100 guitars, and most of them have been from either forums or EB. I understand the risks, but I enjoy the research and the conversation with sellers. If I don't get a good vibe from the person...I walk away. Fortunately, I can do a lot of mods and repairs on my own, and I have a great person who does what I can't. With archtops...that won't be the case...I won't mess with that. I'll do everything I can to know as much detail as possible prior to buying, and then...if I have to return it...that's the price of doing biz this way. I accept that.
Anyway...really appreciate all input and constructive criticism.
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70's 175s will have a thin neck.
No 175 comes with two strap pins stock. Many owners add the second pin. Since 1960 all tailpiece strap pins are screwed in. Earlier models used a tapered pin (as does the 59 reissue).
Other than the 59 reissue, all 175's since 1976 come with a TOM.
70's 175's will have T-Top PUPs, early 80's 175's will have Shaws, late 80's to 2017 will have 57 Classics except for the last few years of 59 reissues which will have MHS PUPs. All sound pretty good with the right strings and amps.
Late 70's 175's will have a volute and maple necks and chrome hardware.
If I were you, I would buy the 97. IMO, 90's Gibsons are among the best ever made. And I am not alone in that opinion.
HTH
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Good food for thought...thank you!
So...you feel the 90's are generally better put together than the VOS?
Anything in particular?
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What if I added a Memphis RI '06 to the mix?
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No criticism intended (not even constructive) it is only the way I do it (even if I have to travel). Otherwise I don't buy any guitar because the best crafted guitar in 100% perfect condition may not be the best for you.
Years ago I travelled to a shop because they had a guitar I really wanted. When I got there and tried the guitar it was just ok but I didn't feel anything special so I tried everything he had. Suddenly I plugged a guitar and everything just felt right. The way it played, the way it sounded...... e v e r y t h i n g. It was like an old friend.
I bought that guitar and now it is the one I play all the time at home, gigs.... and I bought it only because I went there to buy the other one.
The guy said he had that guitar for years and he didn't know what to do to sell it. It means it is a great guitar for me and fits the way I play but not for others.
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This brings up an interesting point. Some people, maybe like yourself, develop a very unique personal bond to a specific guitar. Other people (I'm one of them) enjoy playing a lot of different instruments. If the guitar is not defective, designed in a manner I dislike, or badly set up, I often will enjoy playing it. I didn't bond immediately with the VOS1959 ES175 but it was a solid guitar with no problems and over about a year, I came to love it dearly. My L5ces was glorious out of the box, but it has been a long process getting accustomed to it and learning how to coax the best music from it. I pretty much like any guitar I pick up unless is just a bad one. So I'm probably a good fit for online purchases. Other people, maybe yourself, should not go that route unless you have a good return policy with the seller. Originally Posted by Rufes
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I respect that approach for sure.
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All you said makes a lot of sense to me. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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That's pretty much me...I have a lot of guitars (it's embarrassing really...my gear:chops ratio), and there are guitars that I'll have in the case for years...pick it one day and...zoom! I really like trading and selling...almost as much as playing!
I can go from one type to another easily, and I know cats who absolutely have their #1 and that's it. Some are awesome players...some...not so much, so not to much of a correlation there. I enjoy guitars...I suppose a lot of us do or we wouldn't be in the gear forums.
Guess I also have to start thinking of what to unload too.
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Since you have a wider "tolerance" or taste for guitars, buying online might be an acceptable risk for you if there is a good, no-risk return policy in place with a reliable vendor. Also, I have bought 3 guitars on this forum, and all have been superb, all have exceeded expectations, all were excellent people to deal with. I'm still "friends" with all of them. Originally Posted by jbear
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I have owned many 175's over the years. I currently have three, a 97, a 2017 figured and a 2017 59RI. Originally Posted by jbear
If I could only keep one it would be a very tough choice. The 97 would beat the 59RI, but just barely. And I could not explain why.
You cannot go wrong with either choice, assuming you get a good one. With Gibson's, as with any guitar, there are good ones, great ones and duds. Good luck!
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+1 on Lawson’s comments on the VOS. I have a ‘15 VOS and I am very happy with it. The full neck is very comfortable and the thin frets don’t bother me at all. I would add that starting in 2015 the VOS was outfitted with the MHS pickups, and they really sound excellent. It’s a very authentic vintage PAF sound to my ears. I highly recommend them.
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The MHS pickups aren't yet available for general purchase are they? Originally Posted by Mark M.
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Not that I know of.
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They are not, and they rarely come up for sale. I haven’t seen any for many months, but these showed up 3 days ago on Reverb. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Gibson MHS Pickups Aged | Brian's Gear Depot | Reverb
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There is really no way, from looking at a pickup, to know that it's MHS, is there? Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Unfortunately, that’s the case with an awful lot of Gibson pickups. The ones I’ve seen with clear identification have been in the minority. The finish on those is correct for MHS though. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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This is a (small) minority view, I suspect, but it's really what I think.
The only tone I've ever loved from a 175 was Jim Hall's, and that was with P90's.
Other than that, I think 175's sound bland and (ducking) I don't get what the fuss is about.
Obviously, I haven't heard everybody.
I love Joe Pass's playing, but not his 175 tone. Same with Herb Ellis and others.
Chico Pinheiro played a 175 for awhile. He sounded great, but he sounds better with the Benedetto. I hear more character in the Benedetto's tone.
Pat Metheny got a good sound, but his tone was so processed it isn't clear that the 175 really mattered.
I don't feel the same way about the L5. I think the L5 is a much better sounding guitar.
If I wanted an archtop and I could handle the 25.5 scale, I'd be looking in the direction of an L5 or comparable instrument.
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I’m guessing that in the case of Herb that you mean that you don’t care for his 175 tone, either with the P90 or after that pickup was replaced with a patent number Gibson humbucker. Is that correct? Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
By now, I’ve played many ‘50s ES-175s, ES-150s, and ES-300s. Some of them have been quite good. But IMO there is something special about Herb’s ES-175 still, even with the humbucker. I suspect the same is true for Jim Hall’s, but I’ve never had a first hand experience with that one.
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Then again, I suppose one could be fairly certain by removing the covers to see that they are unpotted, but I’m not sure what else. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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