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I thinks its really a very good live set-up, you can hear detail almost clinically but I still think the tone is rich. I don't find it thin at all. I have to admit I like the studio clip a little better, I wonder if he's always used a lot of thumb. . .
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09-07-2018 01:41 AM
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I love GB, his playing, his singing, music and soul. Always expressive, music comes first, "tone" is what it is, he sounds like himself regardless of gear.
It's hard to forget who the player is and the execution
Check this out:
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I don't think the video quality is distorting it too much so I'd say it is a little thin for a purely jazz sound but it's pretty good for a pop/blues sound in a jazz setting.
If that makes sense. Which, I suspect, is exactly what it's meant to be.
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My computer is hooked up to my hifi system, guitar sounds great.
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I don't care for it. "Thin" isn't quite the right word. I keep thinking he's using too light-gauge strings? The vibrato feels more nervous than expressive, and the notes have a percussive attack that to my ear overwhelms the actual note. I like a fatter tone.
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I finally got around to this.
In comparing George's live tone to other tones that I have heard on recordings and loved, it sounded a bit dry to me. But I realize its not fair to compare live sound to that in recordings, with all the studio magic that can be induced.
I am going to have to search Youtube for some other live performances, but it seems that I have heard some that were a little more omnipresent and beefier, the way that I personally like it.
My 2 cents from a guy with slightly damaged hearing in the higher frequencies.
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It sounds like typical "blackface" tone that makes me not desire to own a blackface amp. If I had to say it with one word, "thin".
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Through my decent Sony Bluetooth speaker the tone is great... not bright at all... well balanced. A bit toward the hot side like Jeff said, but nothing I can find fault with.
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The tone is thunky, too. Laminate bidy, right? I like that.
The tone jumps out in the mix...Fendery.
I'm more of a Green, Wes, Burrell guy, but this works.
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It does not sound bright to me at all but somewhat thin if I had to be critical. A basic pop-smooth jazz tone and the player is who make the tone. In the end the best players have a touch and a sound that make them standout. You could tell this was Benson but it certainly could be many other players. In the end nothing wrong with the tone but not what I call the classic jazz sound.........whatever that may be.
Compare this tone to Hank Garland's Jazz Winds from New Direction, then connpare this to Benson on his Take 5 cut I believed he used the D'angelico. These exhibit the much more personal sound of the player and I could be the set up and guitars. It certainly is very different than Pass playing on his early stuff with the bop sound that is rounder.
Sound is like real love..........very difficult to put into complete words.
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So after 30 odd replies revealing that everyone hears and evaluates sound very differently (shock!), what was the reason why you asked in the first place?
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How about compared to this tone?
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The Burrell sound on Midnight Blue is a great example of a "classic" jazz tone that is not too dark. Not too bright either. Much more midrange heavy, to my ears, than the original Benson video presented.
I attribute the brightness noted by many in the original Benson video to vestiges of the guitar's acoustic sound. This is common on floating pickup guitars and why players who like dark tone typically use fixed-pickup guitars like Gibson L-5 CESs, ES-175s, and the like.
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Right after listening again to the original Benson clip, I heard a track of Howard Roberts and it seemed to me that Benson's tone is trying to be like Howard Roberts but just not quite getting there. The pickup on Benson's guitar just isn't registering the full spectrum of the guitar's sound.
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As mentioned earlier, that IS George’s tone. Works for him, and he certainly knows what he’s doing. Not the tone I like for me, but I’m vanilla and he’s chocolate (no racial pun intended).
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Kojak,
What do you think of the tone?
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I like it for his style.. Not to be compared with Lenny Burrell or Joe Pass playing Summertime or even Wes tone.
Originally Posted by Klatu
I hear some compression too, and possible light string gauge?? Due to the bendings the I hear occasionally.
It is not bright for pop, but it is bright in comparison to the traditional jazz tone.
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Will the real Kojak please stand up... Originally Posted by Gustavo Eiriz
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TBH, I have a "love/hate" relationship with it, dating the "Breezin" days. Originally Posted by Klatu
It's the most articulated tone I've heard; it's basically dry, with a very loud and prominent pick attack, a very short decay of the note and the sustain, although present, is a lot less louder than the initial pluck, like as he's playing permanently in staccatto. This kind of tone uncovers and puts under the limelight even the slightest nuance of your technique, and I mean the technique uncovered butt-naked status!
Even if I was able to somehow nail this tone, I don't think it would ever cross my mind using it in my playing... I like being fully clothed while on stage, so to speak, LOL!
My idea of "perfection" in guitar tone is Chuck Loeb with Fourplay, so you know where I stand.
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There seemed to be a point at which Chuck really found himself and pulled way from the classic processed 70's fusion sound. From that point on I think he had the best solid body tone I've ever heard. It was often still actually quite processed but it was somehow so much more natural and expressive that I just stopped being aware of it. A wonderful player. Originally Posted by LtKojak
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Lot of compression.
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I like GB's tone in this clip. It fits his style and the music he is playing and in the context of the overall band.I have the DVD of the OP's clip and his tone is great to my ears. I also don't put a lot of stock in YT copies tone wise. With regard to his setup. This is what he had to say about his rig. Mind you the clip the OP posted from was done at a concert in 2000 or so and the interview was done in 2012 during his promotion for his "Guitar Man" CD. I enjoyed this interview when it came out. Not so much for the tone but reading about the amount of time he tossed his "Danny Boy" around. Gave me hope just to be able to play a copy.
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Did you use any of your signature electrics?
Oh yeah, definitely. I used the Ibanez GB30 and also a D’Angelico that I had in the closet. I only take that out on special occasions. I got a lot of my hit records with that guitar.
Do you roll the tone knob down or do you keep it all the way up?
I have both the tone and volume controls basically all the way up. Something happens to the tone when I back up off the volume—I like to feel the bite of the guitar. Y’know, feel all the openness.
Some jazz cats feel like a lot of that bite has to do with strings. Are you pretty particular about yours?
If I’m on the road, I like to use .012s. If I’m recording, I like to use .014s—I can hear more and dig in more with the .014s. On the road, I can’t really hear all that because it goes past me and out into the audience.
Can you play as fast on the .014s as you do on the .012s?
Yeah, I think so. I never thought about that. I better put that to the test before I say “yes.” [Laughs.]
Have you tried any other Ibanez jazz guitars, like the Pat Metheny model?
I’ve tried a couple of those and some of them were good, but mine is designed with my needs in mind. I don’t like feedback, and I don’t like thin sounds. I want a full sound but I don’t want to worry about muting the strings because they’re feeding back. My GB10 is unique because it has a smaller body, which takes care of a lot of the feedback issues.
Your single-note playing is fairly staccato, as opposed to, say, Pat Metheny’s, which is very legato. Is that something you do intentionally? And if so, why?
I did it because my favorite players play like that. Hank Garland, he had a very staccatoy sound. It made it sound more forceful [scats staccato-ish phrase]. It was like, “Wow, it’s like the notes are dancing in front of me!” I don’t have a lot of pressure in my left hand, I never did. I think it came from playing cheap guitars where the winding would come undone on the strings and it would cut my fingers. So I stopped pressing hard. I play very light in my left hand. Django, in order to get the vibrato, had to have a lot of pressure in his left hand. Pat Martino has a lot of pressure in his left hand.
How about amps?
I use two Fender Twins. I used to use Polytone Mini-Brutes. Although I love the tone—it’s one of my favorite sounds for guitar and works great in the studio— I found that, in big places, it wasn’t fast enough. It didn’t give me instant sound. Now I’m working with Fender and we’re designing a new amplifier.
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Full interview
George Benson: Still the Coolest of Cats
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Interesting. What does he mean the Polytone wasn’t fast enough?
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I can't speak for GB obviously nor can I quibble with his ears. But I'm guessing he is referring to the amps response or the attack of the note. That attack is a factor of how much instant power is available when the string is hit. The response time or feel is a function of a number of variables. Such as SS rectifier vs Tube rectifier, choke, transformers, speakers, cab size etc. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
In the Nov 2000 interview in JJG magazine. GB said the following regarding his live set up at the time which coincidentally is around the same time as the OP's clip. GB : " My amplifier setup is a Polytone run in series with a Fender Deville. The Polytone has been one of my favorite amps since Breezin' and the Fender has a very quick response which makes it perfect for the fast things I play".
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Slew rate, probably. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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