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Yes first sentence, no second. Not everrrrrrr.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Some of us despise the notion of a used guitar. It is what it is.
Having TMZ contact the owner sounds like a very interesting idea indeed.
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09-01-2018 01:45 PM
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I sincerely hope one does give him a fair price and he gets the service he's looking for. Originally Posted by skiboyny
But my contention remains that regardless of where he buys it, the dealer's service will only be as good as what Gibson itself says and does. This is the same Gibson currently going through a reorganization.
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Mid be more worried about getting a neck from improperly aged wood. That’s a real recipe for a total disaster. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Great input here. Yep, that's the guitar that turned my head alright....although the florentine cutaway is not a must. Love that color. I know about the other manufacturers btw....most of the guitars I now own were custom made for me....In my hunt to acquire "That Sound", I have purchased a Jim Triggs Brydland, and a custom made Heritage Golden Eagle. Wonderful guitars, but not L-5's. In fact the Golden Eagle is going up for sale soon.
Hate to part with it but once I get the L-5 probably won't play it enough to justify keeping it. You guys really know your stuff. Whoever I deal with, I will make sure my money will be refunded if there is any kind of a problem. I was hoping that offering a larger deposit might be a way of negotiating a better price, but I can see the reasons to keep as much money as I can in my pocket til I see the finished product. I am not really concerned about resale...(in fact Ive never ever sold one of my guitars....just handed them down to my son and grandsons) Much more important to get what I want now while I can enjoy it instead of "settling"
like I did on the above purchases. You all know what I mean.....there is no mistaking an L-5. The bigger issue for me is the 12 month waiting period. Jim Triggs gave me a 3-4 month for one of his L-5 type guitars, but Ive been there and done that. So now Im in correspondence with TMZ and Wildwood, hoping for a breakthrough here.
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Mickey - ask for Garett at TMZ and tell him Steve L , Vinny and all the guys on the forum said you would give him the best price . Originally Posted by Mickey
Good luck . Don’t settle - order it the way you want it.
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OK! Will do.....but is it a breech of ediquette to ask for one of them since I have been dealing with Eric?
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I’m with Jim Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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I will contact Garrett and have him talk with Eric to insure you get the best deal. I do a lot of business with these guys. Originally Posted by Mickey
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Mickey,
Just spoke with Garrett. Eric is out until Tuesday and he will get together with him.
These guys work as a team.
He assured me they will get you a great price . His quote “ he will take care of the Jazz forum friends”.
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You could always be cheeky and ask TMZ if they know if the owner of the guitar you covet might be persuaded to sell it!
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The funny things is, that most of the L-5 CES guitars from that hallowed period between the early 50s and early 60s have unbookmatched slab cut maple backs, often with little figure, and in 1962 or so they used plywood heaven forbid!!! Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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It’s too bad you have exhausted the boutique route. We just had an epic thread where one of the most stalwart Gibson fanboy of the forum saw the light and ordered a custom guitar from Mark Campellone. Not a peep of regret.
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You want that in a custom $10 000 Gibson archtop ordered today? Those were the anomalies of the period and their Golden Age status overcame the anomalies. Their status came about because of the Golden Age players. A large part of what you pay for is the cosmetic grade of the wood. No luthier would use these grades of wood and dare ask a high price for it. Not that mismatched maple and plywood do not make great guitars but they are considered cosmetically flawed or inferior materials. The highly flamed ones with bookmatched maple are the ones asking for high prices on the vintage market; the asking price goes up with the cosmetic quality of the maple. So, yeah, looks do matter. Not all vintage L5s are the same. Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
Would you pay $10 00 for a plywood guitar made by Gibson today? Gibson calls that one an L5 Studio. If you dip into the used vintage market, plywood backed L5CESes made between 1964 and 1968 do not command a high price.
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Read your story. Go get the best L-5CES in Bourbon Burst that you want, Mickey. Don't settle. Work with The Music Zoo.
If the recent Les Paul Historics shown to me by my "crack dealer" from the Custom Shop are any indication, the craftsmen at Gibson Custom Shop are still turning out stellar work. So, go for it. It is a matter of faith now.
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Just want to be clear QAman....you actually contacted TMZ on my behalf? I did not realize people did this type of thing anymore....a pure act of selfless kindness. I don't know what to think...I don't know what to say...I am taken a-back. Well that settles one thing....there will be guitars in Heaven.....because Angels play them down here. Thank you more than I can ever say....Thank you for hope and inspiration.
Thank you Vinny...Thank you Steve L....thank all you guys on the forum who have reached out. You guys are really the best.
Just to be clear...do I ask for Garett or Eric?.........Cant wait to report back with what I found out.
Excitement is a wonderful medicine.
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I am not saying anything about ordering when the company is in turmoil but I would like to point out that the L5 is not safe as a model for the reason you are saying. The es175 is probably more popular than the L5 and got cut from production. The Les Paul is their bread and butter and can’t really be compared to the L5 which is likely a niche product nowadays (as are all archtops). Originally Posted by Mickey
There will always be L5s to buy used but for what you want there might not be much time left to get a new L5 if it goes the way of the es175.
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At this point ask for Garrett - I had a long conversation with him about your story and dream for this custom build. Originally Posted by Mickey
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Your faith is clearly much stronger than mine. The poor choices in investments may have gotten them into trouble but they can't be sold for enough to get them out again or that would have already been done. Since the "troubles" began in earnest, they have suspended production of classic models, closed a manufacturing facility and laid off senior craftsmen from the custom shop. The ownership of the company is now in flux and there is no way to know who is going to even be running the company a few months from now or what their priorities are going to be (other than a return to profitability). $10,000 is lot of money and I would want a lot more certainty before ponying up that kind of cash based just on faith. Maybe a year from now when a lot more is known it might make more sense to me but for now if the itch was stronger than I could control and an L5 was the only way to solve it, I'd be scouring the used market for the best one I could find. If a used guitar won't fill the void then I'd put my money in T-bills for a year and see what kind of company emerges from the rubble but there's no way I'd hand over a lot of money to a company that might not even be able to keep the doors open long enough to build the guitar. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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I have done business with Garrett many times. He is a great guy and will give you as good of a price as possible.
I got a couple of Gibson’s from TMZ that we’re not up to my high standards. Garrett immediately sent me a free return label and I was promptly refunded. Tommy the owner of TMZ is a stand up guy too. I got a brand new blonde Super 400 without a mark on it for $7649.00 delivered. Now that was a smoking Garrett deal.
No risk with TMZ. Worst case scenario is your money refunded. No refunds on custom orders unless the guitar is defective or the guitar is not made yet or Gibson doesn’t deliver. What I am saying is if you change your mind before production starts you can get your deposit back. Once they start making your guitar you are locked in. If the guitar arrives with a tail rise you get a full refund. If the maple has some ugly mineral streaks in it you must learn to love them. I will say this. I had The Crimson shop build me a couple customs and they picked there finest wood. Over a year wait for both and they were custom plywood 175’s. This was a year before the fretboard raid for one and during for the other. Just so you know 4-6 months usually turns into closer to a year. I had a year promise once though that turned into 6 months. I was very surprised that the Florentine option was only $300. That is a good deal IMO.
Everyone should have there dream guitar. I had my DAQNY for 30 years in my prime playing years. I have been very blessed by the good Lord.Last edited by vinnyv1k; 09-02-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by rio
Sorry, but that is just purely made-up, speculative, talking to yourself BS. If it were true this would be one of the last to be made and its value would skyrocket sooner rather than later.
So hurry everybody!!! Order your L5 today, it may the last of the Mohicans and will be priceless soon!
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I think that there's some creative interpretation of the news in your post. The way I read it was a little different: Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
1. The ownership is not in flux, it's settled.
2. They laid off admin staff and supervisors in Nashville, not "senior craftsmen". Maybe former craftsmen but not current. Everybody else calls that "going to a flatter management structure". One could ask - what took 'em so long? Don't you make guitars? How many layers of management staff do you have?
You're correct about one thing though - their priorities won't be making L5s - but they never have been. It's too pricey for volume sales.
Your posts have a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt in them. That's understandable given the circumstances but this is not a financial/ROI business case being made here.
How many custom or simply new carved top Gibsons have you pulled the trigger on? Those of us who have done so seem to be more confident, as are the bigger dealers listed here.
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It's just difficult to describe to someone what it's like being employed at a company going through a bankruptcy / reorganization / Leveraged Buyout........I went through that in the '80's, as a lot of people did. It wasn't fun. Answering all the rumors on a daily basis takes you out of what used to be your business.
That's why all those reasons listed here for a smooth transition at Gibson sound so familiar, and MHO are so misguided.
The argument here that the ' guitar division was making money, so they'll be just fine ", is wishful thinking. The entire company, both good divisions and bad, is now equally broke. The new owners, and / or the banks, and court-appointed this and that will each protect his own interests, and will treat all the pieces accordingly, meaning like second class citizens. None of the old ways matter, because the bean counters will say, : " If all this were so good, and you guys were so smart, then why are you in receivership ? "
Bottom line a lot can happen when it takes a year to build something, and that's without adding a reorganization to the mix.
MHO
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I don't stay up on this day to day but the latest news I was able to find without digging all day was from July 23 saying that Blackstone's lending unit was pushing Gibson to make a broader search for potential buyers. Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
Is the company out of bankruptcy yet? Has KKR's ownership been approved? Has KKR said that they're keeping the company long term? Have the terms of bankruptcy been accepted by the court? If the answers to those questions are still no then I think caution, uncertainty and doubt are reasonable attitudes.
Gibson’s Sales Process Comes Under Fire - WSJ
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Just to be clear, TMZ will have an agreement with Mickey. If TMZ does not deliver, Mickey will have legal rights (for the most part) against TMZ, not Gibson. TMZ might put the risk of loss on Mickey (better read the fine print carefully), but we are all speculating here.
Those who take risks sometimes get burned, but sometimes get rewards. Those who always play it as safe as possible usually do not get the big wins.
If I was in Mickey's shoes and a new custom L-5 was on my bucket list, I would make the best deal I could and go for it.
Fortune favors the bold.
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No disrespect intended,you have a understandable bias towards Gibson from what I remember of some of your posts. I don't think you would promote ordering a guitar from them under ideal conditions let alone current state. I get that but there is always risk involved with a custom order. An unknown if you will. Even though your story did not go well, there are many many stories that did. How about some positive JU JU for this guys dream?
Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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