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Welcome to the Blackhole of Overdrive, LOL!
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04-02-2018 05:40 PM
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Yes! That's what I do (and most people).
Originally Posted by rice_burner2000
As for yhe G3, you need to use the gain very low and even doing that, it's still far from brilliant. The G3N is better but still far from a good pedal.
A cheap option you might try is the TC Mojo Mojo. You need to set the gain very high but its a great pedal.
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I put EQ and time based effects like delay and reverb in the loop after the pre and before the power amp. Everything else goes in front with a boost or drive at the start.
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I like my fulltone fulldrive 3 very much.
Also I like a good fuzz pedal dialed way down for some smooth sustain stuff.
But mostly I keep it clean and play through tubes.
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Hi John, my experience with the first generation of MXR distortion+ differs from your - no problems of noise at all. Just goes to show how much variation can exist between "identical" products Originally Posted by John A.
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Typically you wouldn't want to overdrive the preamp of an SS amp, especially if you don't like the amp's overdrive sound without external dirt boxes. So, circuits like boosters aren't much useful for crunch sound here. You're better off with distortion boxes like the Rat, OCD and such. Last year I built a Box of Rock clone with some mods in it, to give it some more mids, and I am pretty much impressed, it's the best sounding pedal I've heard so far. BB preamp is also great. Or you can go with amp simulators like Tech pedals or their Joyo equivalents. And generally you put the dirt box after your guitar, or after your compressor pedal, if you use one, and then the modulation and time effects, but the latter usually go into the FX loop if you have one.
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I'm not talking about noise; I'm talking about the way the pedal muffles the guitar's tone when disengaged. This muffling actually goes away when you turn the pedal on. It's a function of the type of switch used by most pedals made at the time, which leaves part of the pedal's circuit in line with the signal. Originally Posted by Ray175
The effect is more noticeable with some combinations of guitar, cable, and other effects than others, and bothers some people more than others, but it's there. I'll add that some old D+'s have been modified with newer switches and/or buffers; yours might be one of those.
John
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I hear you John, but again, my experience differs. When I used mine from late 1974 or early 1975 through to 1980 I used quality, short cables and do not recall any "muffling" or deadening of sound when it was switched off. I never made any mods in the time I had that pedal.
What is remarkable is that in the early days of MXR the components tended to vary from pedal to pedal (even for the original script models). Mine was one of the first to hit the London shops at the end of 1974 (BUD box version) and there may have been higher quality switches/components on them in the very early days, compared to a year or so later (interesting article here)
In the 1970s I also remember strong quality differences in "identical" EHX pedals bought in the same shop a few months apart. As good or bad news, QC has moved on in terms of "standardisation" (not the same thing as quality)
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That article says this about early MXR pedals: "True Bypass note- these pedals are OLD SCHOOL and will pass signal without power BUT THEY ARE NOT TRUE BYPASS. The pedal is still attached to the circuit board so it affects loading of the guitars pick ups..... ie TONE SUCK!" Originally Posted by Ray175
As I said above, the degree to which the tone is affected depends on other factors, and some combinations of guitars, cables, and amps sound OK. I bought mine in 79 or 80. It sounded really bad with Gibson pups and Fender amps, and I gave up on it pretty early in the game, but I was a broke teenager with cheap cables, so who knows, maybe it was a diamond in the rough. I've been through a bunch of OD pedals since then; I've got a drawer full of 'em. Back in the day, agreed, EHX was notorious.
John
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That switch is a pretty easy mod. Back when I even put switches into things like the early mxr flanger that were sold without switches at first.
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As others have said, you probably want a box that makes the distorted sound for you, like a distortion box, or even an "amp in a box", which would be like a small preamp, and they often have tubes, but the tube ones are big and expensive.
Suggestions like OCD etc are good ones to try. I would pass on an old Distortion +, there are a lot of newer ones out there and a tremendous range that are available to you now- almost too many to count! Just bring your guitar (and amp?) to your local music store- they probably have hundreds of stompboxes as they are a great profit center for the industry!
But stay away from "boost" pedals as someone said. These, and many other types, are intended to push the front end of tube amps into distortion. That is not going to work on a solid state amp. Examples of boosts are tube screamers, Timmy, Klon, etc, and the pedals that are based on these designs, of which there are thousands!
Lastly, listen to a few jazz players who use distortion tastefully- John Schofield comes to mind. It might give you a better idea of sounds and ways to incorporate it into a clean style of playing.
Wow- my first post here and it's about distortion! I'll consider it a trade for the info I am getting on arch tops!
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These pedals aren't played with a jazz guitar or sound in the demo but I think you can get the idea of what they sound like. I ended up buying the sweet cream pedal which I think works great with my solid state amp (a Quilter). The tone city pedals are really inexpensive which makes them good to experiment with when you are just getting started with pedals.
Start with the overdrive and distortion pedals before your amp, most put them early in the effects change. You should really experiment with various effects placements in the change and use your ears, everyone's tastes are different.
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A tube screamer definitely still works on a solid state amp. I recommend it! It's my favorite after trying a bunch of others (some that even had tubes in the pedal, ha). You can certainly get lost in options when it comes to pedals, and probably distortion/overdrive pedals most of all. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
The OP's best bet is to go to some stores and try stuff out (or even better borrow a friends).
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There are so many distortion/overdrive pedal options you will get nearly every pedal under the sun listed -- let me add to the list. Most of the newer pedals won't interfere with your sound when disengaged. I have tried nearly every affordable dirt pedal there is and my pick, especially in a band mix, is the Visual Sound Open Road -- I run it in front of my Fender Twin (which is set clean) and use it for a bit more hair and grit. It has quite a full tone for a drive box and doesn't take too much away from the low end of the guitar sound.
Last edited by wildschwein; 04-03-2018 at 08:31 PM.
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I have used "boosters" in front of SS amps all the time. A TS works great, and it's much more than a booster. Klones work very well too.
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If you guys want easily added hair to grind on a SS amp with overdrive dynamics check out CMOS amps like the old Randall Commander/RG series. The normal channel is even voiced for jazz but can still be used for grit. These amps were developed by Don Randall's crew after splitting from Fender and continuing the work started there. Later Randalls went toward metal but the RGs into the 80s are great. The Sunn amps did this too but had the parametric mids that allowed more unatural/ extreme tones.
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I'm a big fan of the JHS Morning Glory Version 4. Kreisberg uses one too. It is a light overdrive with a great tone control and uses a "red switch" for a gain boost if needed. Its very open sounding without the huge mid-hump of many OD boxes. Another good one is the Walrus Audio Messner Drive. These are both based off the Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal from the 80s but hugely improved.
Morning Glory V4
Walrus Audio Messner | Grilli Guitars | Reverb
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I stand corrected! I have always thought of them as great for pushing Fender tube amps- even Marshalls- that are on the edge of breaking up. Originally Posted by guitarmek
Personally my favorite is a King of Tone, it is a very neutral non-mid hyped boost/OD. Someone else recommended a Morning Glory, said to be quite similar. I also have a Fulldrive and a Timmy.
But since I am not a solid state amp player, I will leave that experience to others!
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I like this design, how you blend the effect in (or blend out). Thanks for the post Originally Posted by BComp61
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Also really like the sound of the J Rockett Blue Note pedal. I may have to get this one. Originally Posted by rice_burner2000
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Had practice today with the new band. Used my Guild M75 with a Fulltone OCD through Polytone SS amp. Setup sounded great at home through headphones, but sounded like garbage live. At volume with the OCD pedal engaged the pickup balance is way off between high and low strings. High strings were under performing, and the 4 low strings were way too hot and feeding back. It was so bad I had to turn off the OCD. I am starting to dislike the M75 but maybe the amp is part of the problem too. Clearly this is going to take some time. First thing to make some height adjustments to the pickups. It is tough to turn up volume at home with family around so will be hard to test. Originally Posted by mad dog
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RB:
I've never tried an OCD pedal. It's more on the dirt side than clean boost yes? The amp could well be an issue. My Polytone MB II loves the old Franz in my X-50, but sounds not at all good with the very P-90 like 2k pickups in my Dearmond T400. So hard to predict which amp/guitar match up will work when P-90s are involved. Seems completely hit or miss.
The practice vs. live thing is an even bigger variable. At home, my x-50 and the polytone seem like a perfect match. Playing with a bass and sax a couple weeks ago, that warmth and richness I hear at home didn't come through nearly as much. At least in that setting, turning up the gain on the TIM pedal was not the answer. I messed with the amp controls a bit, added some mids and bass. Found better sounds, but can't say I was completely satisfied either.
Is string to string sound balance a problem with that M75 even at home, with no distortion?
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When playing jazz at clean settings, I wasn’t aware of any string to string balance issues. They seem to appear from the OCD pedal, and yes it is more of a dirt pedal not a boost. I definitely need to test setup at more volume. Originally Posted by mad dog
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There are a lot of good overdrive/crunch/distortion pedals. There are some good suggestions in this thread, but I suggest a trip to the music store on a quiet day to try them out with a clean amp. Nobody can really tell you what will sound good to your ears.
As for the effects loop, distortion pedals sound unnatural going through the loop. They sound much better going directly into the input. BTW, they also sound much better with batteries, rather than with an AC adapter.
Pedals that affect delay and time (delay, chorus, etc.) sound better through the effects loop. The effects loop allows you to send your distorted signal directly into the front end of the amp and processes the delay effects separately. It makes a noticeable difference. I usually separate my distortion and delay-type effects by direct input and loop input, respectively. As for batteries, they don't really help delay pedals. They sound fine with an AC adapter.
Good luck with your sound. I hope you find your sound.
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I've borrowed a Blue Note that a friend of mine has. It is a pretty cool and versatile drive. He also happens to be a J Rockett artist.
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