Gibson customer service and richlite boards

[DMgolf66]

Can someone tell me what the Facebook Jazz page is that was referred to earlier in this thread?

[Woody Sound]

Can someone tell me what the Facebook Jazz page is that was referred to earlier in this thread?

Don't do it! They'll sell your confidential ideas to other jazz organizations!

[Greentone]

Woody Sound,

As I understand it (I used to work for the Botany Department of a research university), we are talking about millions of years of evolution, and millions of years of ecological change in what we now call the tropics. The plants that we not able to proliferate using micro-rhizome nutrient gathering capabilities died off in favor of plants that could grab nutrients directly from things dying on the forest floor. This was an adaptation due to the absence of nutrients in the soil. SLOWLY, over many tedious thousands of years, an ecology developed that featured plants and animals that proliferated near the floor of the forest, at mid-level, and in the canopy. Disturbing this slowly evolved balance tips a tropical forest towards collapse.

Thus, we can harvest natural rubber from a Brazilian forest by tapping rubber trees, but we cannot clear cut and plant rubber trees to create a rubber plantation. On different soils--say, in Asia--this _can_ be done.

[sgosnell]

The way the forest grew in the first place was "slowly", over many millennia. Many, many millennia. It takes thousands upon thousands of years to reach the equilibrium of a pristine equatorial rainforest. But it only takes years, not even decades, to destroy it.

[Matt Cushman]

There are many types of ebony and some make better fingerboards than others. Ebony is in the family diospyros. That is the same family as our persimmon. The tree should be a good candidate for cultivation which could solve the scarcity problem. A few members of the family have already been successfully cultivated for fruit production. So there may be hope for musicians of the future.

[rio]

Can someone tell me what the Facebook Jazz page is that was referred to earlier in this thread?

It’s just called “Jazz Guitar Chat”. Good group.

As for the richlite sound explanation I’ll get to that later and post it if I can find the words. Out doing errands for a bit.


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[Marty Grass]

I have no personal experience with ebony wearing down, but violinists report this. My guess that it takes tons of playing over years to create divots.

I have worn into a maple fretboard.

[rlrhett]

There are many types of ebony and some make better fingerboards than others. Ebony is in the family diospyros. That is the same family as our persimmon. The tree should be a good candidate for cultivation which could solve the scarcity problem. A few members of the family have already been successfully cultivated for fruit production. So there may be hope for musicians of the future.

The problem with persimmon is the color. Not just not black, but a really unappealing putty brown. I don’t know why it can’t be dyed, but for some reason that appears to require a “secret” process that justifies charging more for dyed persimmon that actual ebony.

I do have a neighbor with a persimmon grove. I’ve been tempted to ask him for a small log to do experiments with.


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[whiskey02]

I’d like to see Gibson make necks with a richlite volute for a $500 upcharge.

[whiskey02]

I have no personal experience with ebony wearing down, but violinists report this. My guess that it takes tons of playing over years to create divots.

I have worn into a maple fretboard.

Wound strings on a frettless bass will certainly wear away ebony.

[floatingpickup]

I only have one experience with Gibson customer support, and it was also a good one. I had just bought my 1947 L-5N. The serial number on the label is really faint, with at least a couple of the digits being a toss-up between one or two different numbers ("could be this, could be that...").

Not wanting to sound like a lazy person who didn't know how to do a basic serial number search on the Web, I explained that I had already done what I could to date the guitar. I let him know that I was aware of the famous and fabled Shipping Ledgers. I implored him to look there for me, not thinking he would be able to actually do that.

But he did! It took a couple of exchanges, but eventually he found my guitar and we confirmed the serial number. It was originally shipped to Sweden, to a shop owned by the then-future founder of the Hagstrom guitar company. And what was extra cool - he then mailed me a photocopy of the ledger page, which lives in the case and will go to the next caretaker at some point.

I emailed them once, asking a similar question. My father’s L5CES has a 1953 s/n but he bought it new in 1955 and it has 1955 features (Alnico p/u’s etc.) I would love to know when the guitar was actually made. Unfortunately, they never replied to my email. Maybe I should call them.
Keith

[Greentone]

Emails are easy to shrug off. Phone calls, not so much.

[wintermoon]

Keith,
Did you check the fon?

[tpandela]

My 2001 (I think) Ibby AS200 has brown streaked ebony. After my initial dismay, I bought it used, I realized it felt great. Smooth and tight and good looking.

Tom

[Gitfiddler]

My 2001 (I think) Ibby AS200 has brown streaked ebony. After my initial dismay, I bought it used, I realized it felt great. Smooth and tight and good looking.

Tom

Your AS200 is most likely Ebony, but could also be Macassar Ebony.

In my book, as long as it feels great...it is great.

[GNAPPI]

I would post there as long as second rate guitar techs were excluded so I did not have to read their drivel.

Jeez, you've UPGRADED them from third rate? I have to follow more posts :-)

[Ray175]

My older guitars have fretboards of dark rosewood (1961 ES175D) or ebony (Ibanez AS200 and MC400), as does my 2016 Ibanez 2619 Prestige, whilst my Martin JM (road series) jumbo from 2002 has Morado rosewood (Bolivia?) and my 2014 Martin J12-16GT has richlite.I guess I'm in a position to compare them because they all get played regularly.

• To my fingers (can only be subjective), the ebony boards feel a little "cooler", and more "present". The hardness makes legato position changes feel very smooth, and fast 8th, or 16th notes on runs feel "cleaner"
• The rosewood on the ES 175D (and a few other more recent guitars) feels "warmer" to the touch and for legato the sensation of fretboard under fingers is less precise - but this is not a problem). Fast runs dont feel as precise as on ebony, but listeners tell me they don't hear a difference in the precision of playing. I find that the looser grain of the rosewood calls for a more regular cleaning (maybe it's just my "dirty fingers")
• The richlite was not a deliberate choice. I wanted a decently-priced (but cosmetically basic 12 string with a sitka top and mahogany back and that's what came with the J12-16GT. It's hard to compare the subjective feeling of fretboards across 6 and 12 strings, but for what it's worth my impression is that the richlite sits between the two. It's warmer to the touch than ebony, but "firmer" than the rosewood on other instruments. A couple of times when changing strings I've played it with 6 strings (before adding the other 6), and after allowing for the wider neck with a flatter radius, I still have the impression that fast runs feel cleaner to my fingers (but I can't hear any difference in accuracy.

I strongly suspect that rosewood and ebony fretboards vary enormously in density and feel from instrument to instrument so others may have a different perpective and experience.

[floatingpickup]

Keith,
Did you check the fon?

Wintermoon:
Yes, it indicates even earlier than the s/n. I will send you a pm with the details, so I don’t hijack this thread. You have such knowledge of Gibson’s. Perhaps you have some thoughts on this.
Keith