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The black richlite I have seen on fingerboards, countertops, and cutting boards has been a bit lighter than the sort of black color we associate with pickguards or pickup bezels.
Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
I think it looks and works quite well. I was just noting that, for example, on the 275 with the Montreaux Burst, the very neutral (and slightly charcoal gray vs. deep black) color of the Richlite might be nicer if it was the slight brownish hue of back ebony.
For painters, I mean something like the difference between Ivory Black and Mars Black.
But surely this slight hue difference is not why some feel it is not a good idea on their guitars.
EDIT: Here is a pic from this site. The FB looks fine, but slightly cool-neutral vs. what many ebony FB’s looks like. No big deal.
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03-27-2018 07:08 AM
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Man, do you know how hard it is for a nitpicking pedant like me to leave the word "natural" alone? Oh I get it, you do know, and you're just evil Originally Posted by JazzNote
Anyway, I've tried a couple of guitars that I found out after the fact had richlite boards. I never would have known that it wasn't ebony had I not read a spec sheet later. Not trying to convince anyone of anything, but using a recycled product with a smaller environmental footprint than "real" wood and which can be engineered to be functionally indistinguishable strikes me as a very good thing. I have a guitar with a perfect, evenly black, ebony board. And plastic inlays covering most to the surface my fingers touch...
John
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I think if you honestly look at the entire harvesting, trade, transport, manufacture process of on ebony FB, it requires a remarkable sense of privelidge to declare it natural, and Richlite an offense.
I mean I definitely get it, but we need to kid ourselves regarding the entire process that gets the ebony FB to our fingers.
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The OP clearly stated that his concerns were of a resale value down the road. Not a debate on which was more natural, which was better. He is of the opinion that it's use will be discontinued, and down the line instruments built with it will carry a lesser value.
Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
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RichLite fingerboards feel smooth and creamy compared to ebony. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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I definitely understand. I was responding to the general discussion that ensues on this public forum. Originally Posted by skiboyny
Certainly the subject of resale value is interesting, just not the only possible angle.
It does seem likely that Gibson will need to securely embrace their past and emphasize continuity of their products as part of any recovery and ongoing guitar business. So like volutes, Richlite may be associated with an unfortunate period for the company.
As others have opined (regarding volutes) this makes sense in some ways, but possibly not directly as associated with the quality of the guitar itself.
It is a difficult picture for Gibson, I think it is likely they will sort it out.
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Hey R, can you try? I am sincerely curious. Is it brighter? "Snappier?" Or, darker? Or does it rattle? Tnx. Originally Posted by rio
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I was against Richlite for purely emotional reasons. Guitarists tend to be conservative with their instruments unlike astronauts. I read about Richlite off and on for several years and realized that personal taste is the only strong argument for ebony.
I can't tell the difference in sound at all. There is a slight tactile difference, but to me it's not inferior, and the only time I can detect the difference is when I'm not paying attention to my playing.
If you want a rougher fretboard, ebony makes sense. Richlite can be made to feel rough, but I doubt many would find that desirable. The roughest ebony, with pits, would not be used on a good instrument. So it seems clear smoother is a plus.
Cleaning Richlite is very easy compared to ebony. It doesn't shrink like ebony and shouldn't crack. I suspect that in 50 years the Richlite boards won't scallop like ebony can.
Most of my guitars have ebony, and that's fine. It seems fitting for an old fashioned archtop. Richlite also seems fine in modern electronic instruments.
To change the subject to customer service, my experience with Gibson has been variable for many years. Sometimes it is excellent. The goal for Gibson should be consistent excellence, that is, reliable excellence. They have a ways to go. It takes time.
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My experience with Gibson service has been that they are extremely motivated to make problems go away. If you need a part and it will keep a guitar away from them, they are extremely eager to get that part to you. This is handy. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
They are the same way for Epiphone. So no social caste system seems to be at work here.
The sorts of parts that are typically needed get to you extremely quickly and efficiently, no questions asked beyond, “You will make the problem go away yes?”
For valuable and less often requested parts, it is a little more involved.
I have been told a part was impossible to provide - followed by a little discussion of the warranty implications - followed by a box appearing about 10 days later.
Do you believe in miracles? Yes.
Interestingly, there seems to be absolutely no difference between way back when I was an authorized warranty service person, vs. a semi-retired person now. They send the stuff if it means they do not need to deal with the guitar.
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It is more smooth and slippery. Even though an ebony fingerboard has extremely tight grain, it is unfinished wood and has a very slight abrasive character. Richlite lacks this. Scratch ebony and Richlite gently with a fingernail and the difference will be obvious. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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That's right -- Richlite guitars play ... Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
.... wait for it ...
... like buttah.
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Thanks RP, but I was referring to Rio who said it *sounds* different for fretless bass. Originally Posted by rpguitar
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After reading the posts about ebony on this thread, I have to say it sounds as if the majority have no idea what a first grade ebony FB is like. Most fingerboards are not ebony. Many black fingerboards are black because they have been dyed black. First grade ebony that is properly polished and cared for will wear for many years of playing. Not all ebony is the same. Some wood that is called ebony probably is not and the same can be said about rosewood. The true ebony is among the hardest and most dense woods to be found. I happen to love the feel of naked ebony under my fingers!
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My intent when authoring this thread was to share a positive experience with a big company (something that is becoming increasingly rare these days) and information on how a prospective purchaser of a Gibson guitar can avoid buying a fake guitar or (if this is of concern) a guitar with a richlite fretboard. Now in its third page, the Gibson bashing has so far been limited to one rude individual, but the conversation regarding richlite has been spirited (which is a good thing). As I believe Gibsons with richlite boards will have a diminution in value over time , I am exercising my "right" to not purchase them (I think that the concept of ebony privilege is an absurd example of political correctness). As the ebony boards on my two D'Angelicos from the 1930's are doing quite fine, I find the notion that Ebony won't last to be laughable. None of us on this forum will last as long as a true Ebony fretboard that is cared for. At the same time, no disrespect was ever intended by me at the owners of guitars with richlite fretboards, or their guitars.
I hope that the information that I provided in the first post of this thread will be of value to some of the many fine guitarists who post on, and/or read this forum. And now back to page three of Ebony vs. Richlite......
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Can someone please explain the "concept of ebony privilege" to me. Beeing a "not native english speaker" i have no clue and i have already tried to google the meaning of the phrase with no success.
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I'm sorry I can't find the quote, but a good point was made about inlay. If one cannot notice (or care about) the difference in feel between frets with block inlay and frets without, then how can anyone argue that they don't like the feel of a certain fretboard material when every other fret on their guitar is inlaid with .05" of the exoskeleton of a mollusk?
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Aha, so it's about accent, not location! Alas, people like me I guess wouldn't dream to get a job at Gibson customer service- my accent is decidedly foreign . I'd probably ruin the day for a pristine Gibson customer Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Let me take a shot at the concept. Tropical forestry involves felling trees on tropical soil. Tropical soils typically are quite different, say, from those in Switzerland. Brazilian rosewood, for example, comes from a region in which the soil is very high in iron and aluminum content, but poor in organic nutrients.
The trees in a tropical forest generally draw their nutrients from the "duff" on the forest floor, not from the soil. The plants use rhizomes to draw nutrients from the decaying plant and animal matter on the forest floor. When the large trees are felled, the sun and rain reach the forest floor--ordinarily this wouldn't occur--the tree canopy absorbs this. The metallic soil erode, harden, and form a substance known as laterite (latin for brick).
It is impractical to repopulate a tropical (not all of them, but many/most) forest with precious, hardwood trees. The soil and organic duff becomes too degraded. SO, we are privileged to enjoy the benefit of use of the wood products from the tropics, but future generations won't have those products to use.
Tropical hardwood forestry is not a sustainable proposition, as I understand it. The work around is that companies that used rosewood, mahogany, and ebony from the tropics are now substituting woods from temperate zones--and wood products like Richlite.
How's that? It isn't really "ebony privilege" so much as the privilege of enjoying hardwood from the tropics.
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It is also true that people tend only to want pure-black ebony for fingerboards, which means only a fraction of the wood from the tree is even used. But streaked ebony is just as good for tone, feel, etc. as the pure black ebony, and if players would adopt and accepted streaked, a lot of ebony would not be left behind on the ground after the cutting. Originally Posted by Greentone
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If you enjoy rosewood, mahogany, and ebony in guitars, my advice is buy your guitars sooner rather than later. I have mine.
Of course, the growing disinterest in guitars (falling demand) could counter the falling supply of guitars made with tropical woods. Prices could remain about the same. Just don't plan on shipping them across too many borders.
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Hi Matt, Originally Posted by Matt Cushman
Is this close to what you are talking about?
A good dye job can be hard to spot in normal light.
The unbound FB is from some LMI very black ebony I got around 2010. It is lit both normally and with a highlight.
The bound FB is from a manufacturer and it looks pretty good. With a highlight though the situation is a little clearer. But really hard to see just under normal condions. In person you can see the reddish brown in the deep grain holes, but I do not have anything that can capture this.
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In a previous post I alluded to Taylor Guitar owners efforts to preserve ebony. Here's more info that some might find interesting and educational. Enjoy!
Ebony Project | Taylor Guitars
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Want the best-sounding fake ebony ever? Deep-black-dyed torrified maple.
You're welcome.
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So, kind of a chicken-and-egg, question, how did the forest grow in the first place? (seriously) Originally Posted by Greentone
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Matt has indeed made the correct contribution on ebony. It is very heavy and dense wood and I love it for so many things. On occasion I have even used it to cleat at crack on a guitar top. That may sound like to horror of horrors to some but in the right circumstance that requires a large cleat it works well. Ebony is so hard and dense that it can be buffed to shine almost like a mirror finish in some cases. Pure black ebony with no streaks is pretty rare it is normal to have some variation but the best is pure black and weighs a ton.
To me ebony is the go to material for all bridges and fingerboards it makes future fret dressing a complete ease. I don't have to mask anything off in a fret dressing just get the frets level, crown and polish and the ebony fretboard polish up with the rest. Try that on a maple fingerboard. Better than rosewood in that respect too although rosewood does not require masking either. Putting frets into an ebony board is a thing of beauty.
To me ebony has the sound of wood, because it is wood, the strength of steel, the flexibility of wood because it is wood, and the beauty of non porous grain. Please send me any you don't want..............
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