Gibson customer service and richlite boards

[deacon Mark]

I am going to agree with SS for now I want and ebony board. I feel pretty blessed to have a small batch of ebony fingerboards and FB material. I have a box of scrape ebony about the amount in a few shoe boxes I use for making bridges and even nuts. All the recent information I am hearing has given be a new respect for scape wood. In fact I just repaired a complete headstock break on a guitar and it needed a new nut with a pretty wide profile I used one of my scrape ebony pieces for it.

[rpguitar]

I have Richlite on my Godin nylon string, and I agree with rio. There is something about the feel of the material vs. wood that I don’t prefer. It’s not something I obsess over, but it’s perceptible and I have an opinion about it that is not emotional in nature.

[ronjazz]

I have a richlite board on my Godin 7-string Multiac, and I've always preferred ebony over rosewood. Richlite is great.

[BigToe]

The advantage to richlite being a manufactured product is that it can change based on the requirements of its customers. If the market demands that it needs to be closer to how ebony feels then it’s possible with more r&d it can be done. I’ve never tried it but it sounds like it’s pretty damn close already. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!
I know most guys here are into high end archtops so demanding whatever you want on your guitar is expected (classical guitarists are even more demanding). But just be aware that the need for ebony on your high priced archtop because nothing else “feel right” has contributed to a market that promotes clear cutting and deforestation on a massive level without consideration to future sustainability. the reason why replanting ebony doesn’t work well is because there is so much soil erosion and runoff after clear cutting there is no nutrients to regrow the forest. This also damages the balance of the watershed in the surrounding area.

From a (hobby) builder’s perspective I know you can make phenomenal sounding instruments from sustainable woods (and composites) and I encourage anyone to try and ease up on your expectations for an idealized sense of perfection based on convention, and embrace innovation and creative solutions. After all, we expect our best musicians to be innovative and creative with their instruments. Why not expect the same from the companies that make the instruments for those musicians?

[neatomic]

richlite uses phenolic resin..which is combo of benzene and formaldehyde!!..not the healthiest..it acts like a glue/binder

they use it in a similar way in particle board...which has warnings for formaldehyde emissions toxicity...

moving companies won't even insure particleboard items...too prone to breakage


i'll take baked maple please

cheers

[jads57]

Well I'll add my 2 cents as well.LOL! I agree if you were handed a guitar with a Richlite fingerboard you'd be hard pressed to tell or hear any difference. And from a stability and maintenence perspective you'd probably be even happier!

But buying guitars is such a an estabished thing that people will pay 2 to 3x's the price for Brazilian Rosewood vs Indian Rosewood. So marketing is so powerful when it comes to pricing new or used!

[Longways to Go]

So this thread is basically a Non-NGD It-didn't-happen thing with lots of thank you but no thank you Gibson content.

Oh, and Richlite. Super slow news day I guess. On to the next. I call FAKE NEWS!

[John A.]

I have to admit that i too, never ever would buy a guitar with a richlite board. Not because i doubt the functional efficiency, but because it's not organic material and i prefer it to be organic. The volute is something different. My optimism tells me that sooner or later guitars with a volute will not be considered to be inferior anymore. I bet that the general negative opinion against volutes is based mainly on imagination and i'd like to ask anybody who considers guitars with volutes to be inferior to play a few of them before making up their minds.

Richlite is made from paper (chopped up wood) and resin (glue) just like the rest of your guitar (except the bits made of plastic or metal). In what sense is that not organic?

John

[ptchristopher3]

So this thread is basically a Non-NGD It-didn't-happen thing with lots of thank you but no thank you Gibson content.

Oh, and Richlite. Super slow news day I guess. On to the next. I call FAKE NEWS!

Maybe there could be a special section for Gibson fan splooge-on-each-other threads?

To separate from actual discussion of guitars, amps, gizmos.

[ptchristopher3]

Richlite is made from paper (chopped up wood) and resin (glue) just like the rest of your guitar (except the bits made of plastic or metal). In what sense is that not organic?

John

Well the resins used in richlite seem decidedly non organic. Which is hardly the basis for the “old man’s” disapproval of Richlite, but there you have it.

EDIT: I was just thinking that formaldehyde is likely actually “organic” and natural. So by the time you consider the total human activity (transport, and gluttonous related activities) in getting an ebony vs. Richlite fingerboard under the hands of an overly-opinionated USA player, Richlite holds up pretty well in all regards.

It would be nice if they made it slightly less a neutral gray color. The slightest brown tint would be decidedly nice next to many guitar finishes.

[Stringswinger]

Maybe there could be a special section for Gibson fan splooge-on-each-other threads?

To separate from actual discussion of guitars, amps, gizmos.

I would post there as long as second rate guitar techs were excluded so I did not have to read their drivel.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I know this thread isn't about richlite pro or con, but I just want to add something. I think if you didn't know your guitar had richlite and you assumed it ebony, you wouldn't 2nd guess it. But if you knew it might be richlite, you could probably see the difference. Does that make sense? Myself, I think in the long run it will prove to be a better material as far as stability with expansion/contraction issues, which ebony is notorious for. Don't know about refret jobs. JMO.

I've played enough Richlite guitars to be comfortable with the idea of buying one. If you close your eyes, I doubt you could hear or feel any difference. You can certainly see a difference; though ebony has a very tight grain and very small pores, they're there. Those features are absent on Richlite and evident upon quick inspection.

The guys over at the Martin forum, and other acoustic guitar forums which have discussed refretting Richlite Martins, report no problems at all regarding refrets. In fact, it seems to take the operation better, because it doesn't chip out as much.

The OP's point about resale value is surely valid insofar as the market is concerned -- as is his point about volutes. But I don't understand distaste for either build spec, myself. Volutes don't change the way I play, and Richlite doesn't change the sound of the guitar at a perceptible level. I think the only real objection is "that's not the way they built them for x years." Fair enough -- Gibson customers are traditionalists.

By the way, SS, what year is that Supreme? Gibson didn't start putting Richlite on Customs until 2011/2012, and I'm unaware of them using it on any other model (except perhaps the Midtown) before then.

[rio]

I would post there as long as second rate guitar techs were excluded so I did not have to read their drivel.

Part of the idea of a forum is that anyone can participate, and you don’t have to read anything you don’t want to. It’s not like real life where you have someone up in your face and except for personal attacks (like this) not much bothers me here since we are just reading words. And bother is probably the wrong word because I’m not losing sleep, it just seems like a shame since it impacts the overall quality of the forum when name calling and witch hunting happens.


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[Thumpalumpacus]

It would be nice if they made it slightly less a neutral gray color. The slightest brown tint would be decidedly nice next to many guitar finishes.

Not sure what Richlite you're looking at, but all the 'boards I've seen have been black, not grey.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I would post there as long as second rate guitar techs were excluded so I did not have to read their drivel.

You can exclude them -- it's called "ignore", and it's there for this reason. You needn't read anything you don't want.

[Stringswinger]

Part of the idea of a forum is that anyone can participate, and you don’t have to read anything you don’t want to. It’s not like real life where you have someone up in your face and except for personal attacks (like this) not much bothers me here since we are just reading words. And bother is probably the wrong word because I’m not losing sleep, it just seems like a shame since it impacts the overall quality of the forum when name calling and witch hunting happens.


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Paul,

You call out my response to a guy who suggests that Gibson fans masturbate on each other, as a personal attack? It was a measured response to a seriously rude individual.

In my opinion.

It is no wonder very few pro's post here.

[rio]

Paul,

You call out my response to a guy who suggests that Gibson fans masturbate on each other, as a personal attack? It was a measured response to a seriously rude individual.

In my opinion.

It is no wonder very few pro's post here.

Well known pros post on the Facebook jazz page and the only difference there is that there is good moderation. There is even more animosity there sometimes and some stuff that seems to be blatant trolling, which I haven’t really seen here. But because of the moderation it is still readable and people know they will gat booted after a public warning. Yeah there’s the whole thing about the internet ruining generations of people who would never speak to one another face to face if they weren’t behind a computer but the thing that is upsetting to me from a practical point of view is that the forum exists to share information and in each of the Gibson threads that end up full of fights (and other threads) the information gets lost. The ignore function would seem to be the perfect tool if someone is really bothering someone else so much that they have to respond to a personality type they can’t handle, perceived personal attacks or actual personal attacks because we don’t have the moderation here. When it is the Wild West then it is just constant back and forth and the information gets lost unless someone decides to take the high ground and not respond, and if that isn’t possible then ignore would make it easier. That’s not my decision to make for anyone but I just wanted to clarify because I’m not trying to call you out but rather try to bring up a larger issue that seems to pop up more and more frequently these days.



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[rio]

Sorry, tried to edit and double posted by accident

[Jabberwocky]

The Art of Self-Defence in the New Age of Electronic Communication:

[Hep To The Jive]

I don't really care about Gibson tbh, but in general how do you know you're talking to 'a live, American customer service' rep? Well, I get it about 'live' lol, but how do you know he or she is American?

[Stringswinger]

I don't really care about Gibson tbh, but in general how do you know you're talking to 'a live, American customer service' rep? Well, I get it about 'live' lol, but how do you know he or she is American?

If this guy wasn't an American, he had the accent down. I suppose it is possible he was not an American, but I would bet on it.

[JazzNote]

Richlite is made from paper (chopped up wood) and resin (glue) just like the rest of your guitar (except the bits made of plastic or metal). In what sense is that not organic?

John

Okay John, you got me. Obviously i misused the word "organic". What i really meant is that richlite is not natural (and i prefer wood as nature grows it). I just hope my use of the word natural won't be questioned similarly.

[Lobomov]

Yeah there’s the whole thing about the internet ruining generations of people who would never speak to one another face to face if they weren’t behind a computer but the thing that is upsetting to me from a practical point of view is that the forum exists to share information and in each of the Gibson threads that end up full of fights (and other threads) the information gets lost.

It's funny ... as I see it this is perhaps the most well behaved music forum and incidents are few ... and the Gibson bashing is a fraktion of what you see elsewhere.


Internet is here to stay and I remember musicians being disfunctional and shrill face to face back in the 80s/90s as well

[cosmic gumbo]

[bluefonia]

Very nice, - finally you can homecook your own fretboard