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I've never considered selling outside the US. I'm nervous enough shipping to the lower 48. It is enough of a challenge for me to find the time to clean the guitar up, take pictures, down load them to the computer, write up the ad up load to Reverb, pack the box etc etc. I only sell maybe two guitars a year and that only started in recent years. I'm an amateur.
And learning the extra paperwork not to mention all the comments I have heard about Cites and horror stories about Customs. I don't consider myself Nationalistic, just trying to limit the hassle. If I had a business selling I'd consider it.
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02-10-2018 08:35 PM
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With all due respect, shipping overseas, "that Customs form" is a pain in the butt! I've shipped some 5 guitars overseas, and or to Canada. Each time I'd have to get on the phone and hope that I got a FedEx agent familiar enough with the form to fill it out on line. Once I got a call from FedEx Canada saying they were needing to charge me $700 in Customs fees. Generally those Custom Fees are paid on the receivers end. But this time the customs form wasn't filled out correctly hence me being billed for the fees. Again, unless you're accustomed to filling out those customs forms regularly you're at the mercy of an international shipping agent to get them right.
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It’s really interesting to me to hear from you US guys about the issues you have with shipping overseas.
I’m certainly not suggesting that all US sellers who don’t ship overseas are xenophobes or inexperienced with international shipping, but there are plenty who are. And I can guarantee not all overseas buyers are trying to fiddle the import duty.
I had a feeling that the export paperwork at your end was higher than other countries, as confirmed by b2bop. Doesn’t need to be higher than other “1st world” countries though does it.
The shipping costs are also exorbitant for some reason, much higher than Canada. Why? You’re both North America! Fedex is aaarrrgghhh and unbelievably slow to my address even for small packages.
I can get a guitar, fully valued, fully insured, full paperwork, fully tracked, professionally packed, from Japan in 3 working days. I don’t think it can get better than that.
Anyway, that’s why I don’t buy vintage US archtops (or new ones). I can hear some of you saying “why doesn’t he buy them in his own country?”, so I’ll pre-empt that by saying "because there are none here".
cheers, over and outLast edited by sunnysideup; 02-10-2018 at 11:10 PM.
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I have shipped guitars to Europe and Canada. Always a hassle and expensive, but If I have a guitar for sale and someone is in another country and is willing to pay the shipping, I aim to please. Two of my Harley-Davidsons have made their way to Europe. I like exporting great American products. We make/have made some good stuff here and it is only right that others can enjoy it too.
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I sent guitars to Spain, Italy, Iceland, and the UK, and that was just in the last month. FedEx paperwork is admittedly not straightforward at all to fill out, but it wouldn’t prevent me shipping that way if a buyer wants it.
The only time shipping internationally has been a problem was with a Guild that I had shipped to Canada. The buyer couldn’t bond with the skinny neck and asked to return it. He shipped it back to me via UPS. They tried charging me a ridiculously exorbitant brokerage fee which they informed me about somewhere around a month after I had received the guitar back. I refused to pay it. They acted quite hostile about it for a little while and tried to intimidate me into paying it. Finally, they called me and apologized, saying they were dropping it. It’s the closest I’ve ever been to having calls from a bill collector. Now that was a hassle I don’t want again.Last edited by ThatRhythmMan; 02-11-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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To help with your GAS, here is a Hutch signed one from 2001, not as mint as they are usually found but still, in US dollars that is among the cheapest around at the moment
Originally Posted by 73Fender
Gibson Custom Tal Farlow Electric Archtop Guitar, 2001 | www.12fret.com
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This. I live away from big cities, where the pickings are slim. You’re not going to find one L5, let alone two to compare, so when I bought mine 20 years ago, it was new from Florida, marked down because it had been in the shop for almost 2 years. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
I don’t like relic-ed appearing guitars just for the sake of relic-ing, but can handle some minor wear, if its an otherwise great guitar, but the idea of sharing a guitar with some slob who dragged it through thousands of bars, sweated, smoked and maybe puked on it has zero appeal for me. OTOH, if it was in the hands of someone who loved it and loved to play, regardless of ability, then that’s the kind of mojo and minor imperfection I can appreciate (but I still don’t like major scars in the top, or evidence of major surgery). Short of previously belonging to Wes, Jim, George, Pat, Chet, Eric (or John or Paul) I’d still rather put my own first ding in it, kind of like with cars.
Of my archtops, 3 out of 4 were purchased used, but look new. That’s what I like. My other gibsons were all purchased new, but are great guitars, each with personal scars that make them mine forever... broken headstock, courtesy of my long gone favorite dog, LP custom from high school (now 45 years ago), mods by friends and now well known techs, volume of playing time and some memorable gigs, and perfect necks for my increasingly work worn hands.
When my guitars pass into someone else’s hands some day, they will BE the kind of guitars I’m looking for, and at a price that will make a new, young player smile with gratitude and maybe cherish the history and love that went into each one. A gift, a special find.
Or maybe I should run over them a few times, marinate them in urine, beer and sweat, then leave them out in the yard for a few weeks in July, so that the connoisseur who pays my executor a lot of money one day will feel better about their investment :-)
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I don't mind used if the price is right. What I don't want is some other guy's improvements.
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bruh now that’s what i call mojo Originally Posted by yebdox
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“Improvements” aka “upgrades” rarely are, except maybe for that one guy. Originally Posted by Mark 63
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Interesting thread. I happen to really like vintage Gibson archtops (of course I do, champagne taste meet beer budget) but even when I buy other types of guitars I prefer used because they're broken in already. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy new, I have at various times but used guitars are my preference.
However my rule of thumb on digital electronics is always buy new -- used modelling pedals and other digital electronics are too delicate to take a chance on buying used. But guitars are like old Chevy's, even if it needs something major like a neck reset or a fret job I know techs I trust to do the work and then it comes back like new and ready for more years of wear and tear.
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So, because a US corporation tried to screw you... blame Canada? Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
This is exactly why I request USPS shipping. Never had an issue on over a dozen purchases.
Never got a "surprise" invoice a month later.
Now, too many US sellers won't ship to Canada because of this type of post.
If you don't want to accept returns on international shipments, say so, up front.
This puts the onus on me, the buyer, to be sure about the purchase. Did I do my research?
The only time I had an issue with a product I purchased from the US, it had nothing to do with the shipping. Rather, an unscrupulous vendor, passing himself off as a luthier!
Unfortunately, no courier could help me here.
Please, don't exclude Canada based on one experience!
Sorry to hijack, but this hits close to home.
Cheers,
Ron
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Ron, Originally Posted by RonD
I still ship to Canada! I also am completely willing to accept returns from Canada, but only via USPS.
Please don’t think I’m blaming Canada. (Was that an intentional Southpark reference?) My ire is directed solely at UPS.
TRM
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TRM, Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, that was a South Park reference.
UPS gets no business from me!
I recently attempted to purchase an Ibanez guitar on ebay, from a US seller. It was an auction. I sent a PM, offering a very good "buy it now" price.
He refused to ship to Canada...
I watched the guitar sell for 1/3rd of what I offered.
I couldn't resist sending him a follow up email asking why he wouldn't ship to me.
His response was that he was broke and needed the money, but had read an online post about an issue someone had with a Canadian purchase!
I then explained to him that if he had simply communicated these concerns to me, I would gladly have forfeited any return privilege unless he had misrepresented the item.
To me, communication is key!
Still makes me sad that he lost out. He sounded kind of desperate.
Ron
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Hi Ron,
The last guitar I sold on EBay (so maybe 7 years ago before the ‘bay got too silly for sellers) was a $2,000 guitar to Canada.
Indeed a conversation solves many things when the parties are rational.
I agreed to ship any way he wanted, he agreed to release the funds (so PayPal was not holding them) so that I was not stuck if things got stupid in customs.
Sure enough things did get stupid in customs who declared the Epi Elite a USA product - which somehow was a problem.
Anyway, I then wrote a letter to Canadian customs explaining the origin, and somehow all was fine.
So sure, mild irritations, but no big deal. And the buyer was hapy to make sure I got paid in a timely manner.
Nothing beats dealing with rational people. And pretty much nothing is less worthwhile than the irrational.
I have sold several guitars overseas and never had a problem with the buyer, or declared value, or anything really.
*************
How would it work if I drove over the border with a guitar for personal use, but then did not bring it back?
Chris
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PTC3,
Ya know I have bought so many guitars on eBay - and being a buyer I too like talking to people I plan on doing business with - it's so much easier "reading" who they are in a actual phone conversation. It's like here - people type something and who knows how someone else is interpreting it... Saying it versus reasoning with someone via a call is priceless... I've made many good friends speaking to folks while doing a deal. There's a whole group of those guys right here for example, Gitfiddler, Max405, Marty Grass, Archtop Guy, Rhodes Scholar - I'm forgetting a few... I've been lucky buying.
But damn man, selling on eBay or Reverb is such a pain... Reverb seemed great at first because you walked away with more money. Not any more. You get one shifty customer as a buyer who upon receipt of your perfectly fine instrument decides to get cute, aaaahhh I had two of those. It motivated me to sell locally to guitar stores who buy wholesale and sell retail - but compared to the fees on eBay and Reverb it's easier and you pretty much break even. You walk in their shop, they look over the item, do some research on it's value and make an offer and pay you cash or with a check you know is good... Done. Or failing that you find some young turk wanting to play and GIVE them the guitar and that break they need...
Yeah I bought a lot of stuff from Canada, Japan, China, even Korea. And it is a crap shoot how Customs will act - you don't know - is your item gonna breeze thru unscathed or will they send you the "f-you letter" demanding to know what it is made of (think Cites violations) and so on. Best to suck it up and get a Customs Broker to handle the transaction - for a small fee you get someone that is acting in your behalf - they know all the forms to fill out properly and actually know these nebulous Customs inspectors.
Now guys not wanting to ship outside the lower 48 or to Canada, well it's their gear and their call... When you really want that one special (to you) piece it seems so unfair... I been there. You get some guys that are so paranoid they only wanna deal locally cash in hand. Nature of the beast.
Me I keep looking and finding stuff these old eyes like.
Big
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The original question was "why buy new?" The thread title "Why on earth not buy a used Gibson", arguably a different question. The "Why on earth" preface indicates a POV that buying a new one is never better.
The general statement that good used ones (usually) cost less than new ones is the obvious starting point. But like most things in life, trying to make that absolute is not going to work the same.
Buying used can be a real headache for many reasons, not worth having to spell out here. So it is not that there is no down side to buying used.
So it basically comes down to price. So if one can buy a new Gibson for the price (or really near) the price of a used one, would that be an acceptable answer? Of course the CME Memphis sale comes to mind.
So I submit a sample answer to both questions "Because I bought a flawless new Gibson ES-175 Studio for $760 out the door"
Sure it takes exceptional shopping to do that. But it also takes exceptional shopping to get a good used one at a good price.
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