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Depends on situation and i judge the guitar not if it is new. But put this in perspective, suppose you bought a new Gibson Johnny Smith in 1965. Now today you want to sell it, I believe you have the upper hand in selling over another JS. My dad bought a new Barker archtop in 1965 number 8. It was sold by Johnny Gray taking the guitar to LA to sell for Bill Barker. Now these 53 years later I have the guitar and know the complete history in fact I got it from my dad in 1983.
I would like to buy a Super 400 and a new one will cost more so at this point used is only option. New is fine if the price is right and the guitar plays like you want. Buying guitars really is all situation driven for myself and no real rules against new ones.
Those 175 CMEs were a deal if you could get through what some QC problems. They were well worth the gamble which essentially was zero. Send it back if it did not work. Repairing guitars i tend to not worry about things other players obsess over. Headstock and neck cracks, top cracks, even refins it all depends on the specific guitar. All acoustic guitars are put together with glue and planned cracks so to speak. 5 piece necks, 2 piece tops, ect......
This particularly true of archtop guitars. Flattops are different and especially top cracks and belly pulling i avoid.
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02-10-2018 01:18 AM
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my Stardard 2012, my 211 Studio Deluxe( love her)
last is my 1979 Custom
All brought used.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I noticed that the US government makes it hard for private sellers to ship abroad by requesting more forms to be filled out than most other countries. In addition to that we have now the CITES, which again seems to be somewhat "overweighed" on the US side. (I'd prefer them to take the climate situation more seriously instead of bothering us about the few guitars we would like to have shipped ;-)) Have a look at the Japanese market, no exaggerated paperwork necessary there, the sellers there appear trustworthy in general, shipping cost is reasonable and as someone once explained it seems that Gibson exports their best to Japan. I had a great experience buying a used LeGrand from Japan.
Originally Posted by sunnysideup
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Why on earth not buy a used Gibson? Yeah, why not.
But what completely escapes me is why it is so incredibly important to so many guitarists all around the globe how good the deal seems to be when buying a guitar they really want and why it is so important to so many guitarists, how much other guitarists have paid for their guitars. Ghee, do you guys really care as much about the price for all the other stuff you buy in your life? Food, Restaurants, Travels, Cars, Cosmetics, jewelry, real estate etc. and do you always compare the price that you have paid to the prices that others have paid? Must be strenuous.
Many NGD threads begin with how much the owner has paid for the guitar or how good the deal was, it almost seems there is an urge to show off - not the guitar but the price paid. Why on earth should I or any reader care about how much someone somewhere on this planet has paid for a guitar? I'm interested in what he thinks about the guitar, details about the instrument, maybe sound samples, not about his willingness to spend money on a guitar.
Also, when the time comes to sell a guitar, why is it so incredibly important to so many guitarists that they don't lose a penny on it? Didn't you have your share of fun and musical satisfaction with it and is that worth nothing to you?
I'd say get the guitar(s) that you want if you can afford them and report about the instruments. And read about those that you cannot afford or don't want to afford. And for the rest, try to make good music with them, that's all that matters. But maybe that's just me. Rant off. Carry on.
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Good points Drifter! I am Dutch and it seems deeply embedded in our culture to score a good deal. When you can get the same thing or something similar for less money then you the man.... seems rather ridiculous now that I write it out like this, but it really is deeply embedded in us I notice.... we even have an expression for it: sitting first rank for only $0.10!
But you are absolutely right: if the guitar suits you and you want it, the price shouldn’t be holding you back from getting it (within your budget limits that is).
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I think you've conflated two issues. It's good to find the absolute best deal on an instrument because unless you know that it's going to be great beforehand (which is impossible since they are wood), there is a chance that it will not work in every situation. i.e. sounds good in the living room but not on a loud gig. So then, the idea is that you buy it low so you can sell it and not lose your shirt. The 2nd issue is guys who can't lose a penny. If you ever follow my sales, you'll see that I rarely do that. I almost always sell for what I paid or less. I figure I've used it and gotten value out of it.
So you see, it's possible to do one without the other. Just sayin'...
Originally Posted by Drifter
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One reason for that is that shipping outside the USA is super expensive if you insure the entire amount on an archtop. For example, I've sold several guitars to EU and canada and USPS would only insure up to $600. Fedex and UPS would insure for the entire amount but the different in shipping price was close to $400 USD.
Very few buyers are willing to pay that. I also had a situation where I sent something to someone in canada who claimed they never got it and it turns out that when USPS hands over to canadian post, the traceability is lost so I was unable to prove that he received it and he filed an "item not received" claim and I lost the sales money and the instrument so I will only do international deals now if the buyer pays via paypal gift and waives the insurance difference over $600.
Originally Posted by sunnysideup
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I appreciate your reply, but I'm not aware that the US is more overweighed by CITES than all other countries. I've recently been in touch with a large well known Japanese retailer who has currently stopped exports of guitars containing affected woods because of CITES. Anyway, the scenario I referred to with US sellers predates CITES - I completely gave up on importing from the US long before CITES. Originally Posted by JazzNote
My dealings with the Japanese, the Chinese (never actually bought a Chinese guitar yet), the Germans, Canadians have always been friendly and helpful. But 50% or more of US sellers have this narrow-minded view. You can see it in the for sale section here too. There are other US dealers, like archtop.com and guitarsnjazz, who have been very helpful, but often the deal failed because of US limitations on the size of the box for shipping or because of the very high shipping costs from the US.
You can easily check what I'm saying by posing as a non US buyer online!
By the way, the only guitar I ever used professionally, back in the day, was a Les Paul. I have nothing against Gibson or the US per se. I've visited the US about 12 times, and even worked there on and off.
But I only import Japanese guitars now. Logos don't interest me, and Japanese quality control is famously reliable. If I could test drive a vintage Gibson before buying I'd consider it but not otherwise.
I am also 100% in support of the objectives of CITES, and am appalled at the damage done by the guitar business. I was pretty much unaware of all of this before.
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When I went against my ultra cautious nature and decided to buy my most expensive guitar from USA from a private seller, the only risk I really took in my opinion was to go with USPS and their sucking insurance limit on international shipping.
Shipping cost was way cheaper than with FEDEX and UPS and I knew with those 2 I would also get shafted with all possible brokerage fees. My USPS experience was a bliss except for the stress as the Booboo story was still fresh at the time...
At least I knew exactly what I was buying by going through a reputable seller and pro who has seen, played and reviewed more instruments than I changed strings in my life...
I knew it would be well packed and if he claimed that one was a fabulous instrument, despite its minor cosmetic issues following a replaced nut, I trusted and was not disappointed.
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who was that reputable seller?
Originally Posted by vinlander
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+1. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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I ship many guitars overseas, particularly to the EU. What exactly is this exaggerated paperwork? A customs form? That’s not different than other countries. It’s very simple. Originally Posted by JazzNote
Also, if using USPS, I can usually ship a guitar to the EU cheaper than I can to the west coast.
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I forgot another used Gibson I have (I either have too many and or I'm losing my memory). A 93 LP Studio with ebony board. $600 on Craigslist and it hangs with the big boys just fine. If I had to have only 1 LP I could it with that Studio.
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Many sellers rightfully don't want to ship overseas, it's not some prejudice, they just see it as too much of a risk. Shipping can be pretty high. I goes both ways, many sellers do not want to ship, they want to deal locally (had that happen recently even though I offered the seller an additional $150.00 to simply drive to a FedEx store and I'd pay the shipping too), others don't want to ship out of the lower 48 states (expenses too high, risks in shipping to those areas are higher). It's not personal (which you're sorta making it), it's strictly business. There's other guitars out there and many dealers WILL ship overseas (Guitars n Jazz is a highly reputable dealer with a long of history of customer satisfaction) but it costs money...
Big
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Impatience
Here in Canada, we have less choice, smaller population, fewer guitars. Top-of-the-line Gibsons like L5s are few and usually priced at almost new prices. I waited 6 months perusing Craigslist twice daily looking for a Les Paul I could like with no luck. Gave up and bought a new Traditional Desert Burst. A very good guitar. 2010 was a good year for Gibson. Of course, a month after I bought, almost the same guitar shows up for $600 less than I paid. Then a few steals on Historic Goldtops
I have waited and gotten killer deals on my Godin Montreal Premiere and 2 Larrivee acoustics.
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Weight relief by the current method? No thanks!
There are fine, older, pre-owned Gibby choices that were made without various QC problems that seem to plague the brand.Last edited by Namelyguitar; 02-10-2018 at 03:41 PM.
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Culberson is no slouch either. IMO he is as good as Hutch was. You will be hard pressed to see a quality difference between the 2. I think Culberson grabbed the torch and continued the great quality run. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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I assume they were arch top builders at th CS? Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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When i tried to get a Johnny Smith shipped to Switzerland in 2016 i came across something called EEI. US government asks for goods to export with value exceeding $2500.-, that the sender files a Electronic Export Information. This is possible only for senders with domicile in the US and one needs an ACE Exporter Account which he needs to pay a small fee for. I never heard of anything likewise in another country. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
I've heard from a few sellers in the US that dealing with CITES regulations/paperwork was something they were not willing to do, so shipping overseas was impossible. I also heard from buyers in the US that used guitars got stuck at customs because of CITES regulations. But when i had imported my LeGrand (bought used) from Japan in early 2017 there was no mention of CITES at all and the customs here didn't ask anything CITES related.Last edited by JazzNote; 02-10-2018 at 04:47 PM.
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Yes, i agree 100%. My 2014 LeGrand which bears the name Culberson is just as grand as the mentioned L5. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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I have a mix of new and used guitars ..... Gibsons and other brands
When I've bought a new Gibson it was a combination of things ...
There has always been an element of impulse buying in my guitar purchases ... walk in a store and there is an awesome guitar that I would love to have
And I also prefer to play before I pay .... if a good guitar is in my hands and I happen to have the finances available at the same time .. that increases my chances of me walking away with the guitar ... rather than running home to spend time surfing the internet for a better deal and taking a chance it won't be there when I decide that's what I want to get ... sometimes I come home with a used guitar and sometimes a new guitar
I have almost always made sure I bought my new guitars with deep discounts .. at least 30 percent off of MSRP .. if not more than 40 .. it has to be something special for me to pay at or near MSRP ... living in the US certainly seems to help when it comes to buying new Gibsons at a decent price,and used Gibsons aren't always that much cheaper here anyways
My last few new Gibsons were discounted enough that a used one would not have been much less .. and the hassle of tracking down a better deal on a used one wasn't worth it IMHO ... not to mention the hassle of internet shopping and shipping verses having the new guitar in my hands before I bought it ...
I appreciate the value of buying used ... so I have done that, too, when the situation was right
I also appreciate having something new and shiny ... without anyone else's cooties ....
In 1993 I even ordered a new Gibson Le Grand from the factory .. and the purchase worked out quite well ... it arrived fresh from the factory and my dealer even let me open the box ... that was fun
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@ Mike & @JackZ
I'm really not trying to make it personal - I'm seriously outnumbered here :-)
I've imported guitars from several European countries, and Japan, and had several conversations with Canada, always fully insured. No problems.
The only problems I've had is with US sellers.
I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the US market is so much bigger than other national markets, so there really is no need to ship outside. And consequently there is often little experience in international shipping.
But there is a nasty nationalistic underside with many US sellers which obviously you haven't experienced as you are from the US. Sad but true.
And I've never had a bad experience with a Japanese seller or guitar or deal. So it's a no-brainer for me.
If we all the had the same experience and opinons there'd be little point in posting would there :-)
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Helluva wife you got there. My first-christmas present from my wife of 38 years ago was a Martin D28 (I was a folk singer back then). These women, when you find them, you just keep them. Originally Posted by citizenk74
Why not buy a used Gibson? Well, I have. Repeatedly. A series of Les Pauls. An L-48. An ES-325, -35, -45. An ES-175. An ES-137.
I did buy one new one, at the insistence of my wife - A 2006 ES-175, all curly maple back & sides, with a nicely chunky mahogany neck and Classic '57s. I just went in for a pack of Chromes and a Joe Pass book, honest. Some days just take a turn for the better.
I'm good.
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Yup! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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As a US based private seller, I remember selling to many different countries, and out of many transactions, I only had two where the prospective buyer was not asking me to place a false value on the the item for tax purposes. Once because the item was so inexpensive that it didn't matter, and one other time.
That gets old, and it's usually easy enough to sell to the massive US market, so there usually is not any reason to have to accept the additional worries that come with international sales.
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