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I looked at the Gibson 2018 website. There are zero archtop models available now, unless you count the ES-275.
Do you figure that Gibson has effectively withdrawn from the archtop market, at this point? Are they giving into demographics...and their difficult finances?
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01-24-2018 03:58 PM
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Dang, I surely hope NOT.
There's always somebody out there that'll want a new L-5 or Super 400. Say it ain't so Gibson...
Big
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I dunno, but if I had a Gibson I was thinking about selling...I'd be hanging on to it for a bit....
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Let us hope this is a temporary hiatus pending some kind of financial reorganization.
Hey, a guy can hope, right?
Right?
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I looked and a lot of 335-ish models and the 275 and that's it.
My guess is they want to cool the archtop market down for a year or so, then bring them back, but made in Japan or Korea and finished in the U.S. Like the Sadowsky archtop made in Japan and finished in the U.S. They need to cut the expensive part of the production down, then bring it back to U.S. for the finish, setup, and fine tuning. I'd be fine with that if they cut the prices a bit, but looking at Gibson history they don't cut prices.
Could end up with Epiphone and Gibson archtops being made in same factory, then finished in two different countries.
Gibson's becoming the TeleNovela of guitars, stay tuned for the next episode of As Your Stomach Turns!
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A wide open door for Heritage!
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momentary lapse while the asian factory tools up!!
uh oh!! haha
cheers
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They unloaded a lot of their talent when "things went south". The writing has been on the wall. But dang! They did know how to make a great finish.
I can see it now, Givson in India opens up a facility in Nashville, provides employment for the luthiers and Givsons become a world contender for high end archtops.
I'm sure this all makes some kind of sense to the business world, but what a loss.
David
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ps-
as it happens i was just perusing some new japanese guitar magazines..and they are all pushing the new gibson line..which is basically the 275 (again) and some 335 semi type variations..and that new asymetrical solid body
cheers
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My guess is that the new carved archtop market is fairly small and is well served by used instruments and new imports.
Having limited releases of L-4s, L-5s and Super 400s is a bit like winding down the space program. First, the experienced, knowledgeable guys have their skills slip through less use. Next, the following generation of Gibson luthiers have had little training and less experience. They will be sent to Eastman for preceptorships.
I'd like to say that I trust Gibson to carry the torch and pass it on well. I can't.
Heritage has done that. I was there not long ago. The original guys, all well into their 70s, are still working. The guys and gals under them are competent as well.
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According to the Crimson shop which I have been in recent contact with all archtops are special order now like they did several years ago. You order and wait 5-12 months for it to be made.
Smart move on Gibson’s part. You want one you will pay “their” price.
Let’s not forget the CME smoking deals were only on Memphis made guitars. Nothing out of Nashville.
Memphis will not be making 175’s this year. They will return most likely after the factory move is complete IMO.
Kind of like prohibition. Take away the booze and people will pay top dollar to get a bottle of it.
This will also jack up the prices on the used market for people not willing to wait.
It was a 11 month wait for my 2010 L5 when they did this last time and I had to pay top dollar.
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And Cordoba/Guild if they jump in.
Originally Posted by ESCC
Brad
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They will make stuff if there are people who want to buy it, they are a business after all. I would imagine after the recent blow out there aren't many people in the market for a new 175 that haven't just bought one so there is no rush to make more, but I'm sure they will.
Last edited by plasticpigeon; 01-24-2018 at 08:48 PM.
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Yes nice time to bring back the Guild AA, X700, X500, X150, etc.....USA Westerly models.
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Archtops? Seriously guys, that ship has sailed. The only thing left of the market is a bunch of old guys (us) who wax nostalgically for great guitars that make great music. Jazz is dead. Between indulgent post bop jazz musicians whose "art music" turns on but a scant few and the culture of technology, where computer generated anything is "better" than the real thing, jazz has not had a fighting chance.
Add dozens of luthiers all building Benedetto clones and selling them to guys with too much disposable income and too little musical talent (with some exceptions to be fair), and the shrinking market for archtops combined with a bloated supply has pushed Gibson, the inventor of the archtop guitar out of the market.
Gibson will build archtops to order (at very high prices), but for now, the party is over, with great party treats (CME 175's at blow out prices) for those of us smart enough (or is it foolish enough?) to stay till the end.
But pendulums swing. Jazz and the archtop guitar will one day make a comeback (for jazz is the finest music ever created and archtop guitars are the finest guitars ever created). I do doubt that the majority of us on this forum will live long enough to see it. But while the Titanic that was jazz sinks, I for one am going to be playing this superb music on these superb guitars as long as I can.
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I'm not sure how to interpret their web page. If I click on the "products" link on the main menu, then click "Archtop" on the "Model" menu, a full range of archtops pops up. But if I click on 2018, or 2017, , or 2016, no models are displayed. If I click 2015 or "All", models pop back onto the page. If you click on any of the models, a price shows up, and there's no indication that it's out of production. Could this just mean that clicking on a year filters for models that were introduced in that year? Originally Posted by Greentone
John
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If they do manufacturing abroad, they'll pitch it as a new advance in luthiery that nobody ever tried before, like no-nib frets, solid-formed tops, and scarf joints; all done solely because it makes the guitar play and sound better... Originally Posted by docbop
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Not dead, but a niche, like stamp collecting. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I'm not holding my breathe. I'm also waiting for the return of Newspapers, Video Stores, and Drive-in theaters. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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old guys aren't the only ones who pine for archtops, most of them are the only ones who can afford them. that's why there's so much demand for asian made archtops like eastman d'angelico epiphones and ibanez because they make relatively good instruments that are affordable. if you look at the current jazz guys, they're still using archtops, gilad, lage lund, kriesburg, julian lage, peter bernstein, bobby broom, russell malone etc. archtops aren't just for jazz either, with blues, rockabilly and folk musos use archtops as well. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
i think gibson is doing this because they're probably going to make more money charging ridiculous prices for custom ordered guitars
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John A - that's exactly the way I interpret it. The Model Year is the year in which the model was introduced, not the year it was manufactured. This page seems to imply that there are still 15 archtops available from Gibson Custom: Gibson Custom Archtop Electric Guitars
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"Didn't need no welfare state,
Gee, our old LaSalle ran great,
....Those were the days."
(The setting: the Bunker household, circa 1962)
"Hey, Edith....what d'ya do with my guitar, my Gibson"
"Under the bed, Archie...are you gonna play now?"
"Yeah....hard week at woik....I'm gonna sit down and play a few tunes....crack me open a Ballantine...will ya.....and where's my pack of Old Golds? "
"Probably in your jacket, Arch....inside pocket....where you always put them."
"I think I figured out that Tal Farlow tune...let me know what you think....and after that, I'm gonna listen to the ballgame....Mantle is hot....so quiet will ya when I'm listening to the ballgame."
"Quiet it is....Arch....whatever you say....but I like it when you play....all romantic like."
"Aww...don't be turning into a dingbat, Edith."
Time moves on....movement, but maybe not progress....who can know.
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would you stifle yourself there edith? Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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Archtop Bunker? Originally Posted by goldenwave77
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In the meantime, I'm doing what little I can to seed the future by providing young musicians with archtops (and other types) for their edification. And I am happy to report that they are using them to write and perform music. An appreciation of the instrument may lead to an appreciation of its history and the history of its use.
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