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Maybe we should bring this to the attention of the fellow from CME who has made “great friends” here and see if he’s interested in making this right? Just a thought. He has posted a few times.
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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01-22-2018 08:23 PM
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Roger gets it real here.
Interesting.
Wonder if anything will come of it.
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EDIT: I mean to say - If I were a CME pro salesman I would notice this thread with “CME” in the title.
Which makes it interesting to have a CME rep start a new thread on the blowout sale yet be silent here.
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More EDIT: I tried a 275 from CME. It sounded great ++++. But was such a piece of crap in the build quality that I sent is back. They were great and refunded everything no problem.
But our OP here needs professional dealer help here. So this is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.
CME? Care to step up? Do this guy a solid?
*******Last edited by ptchristopher3; 01-22-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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Wasn't going to choose sides but I am with ptchristopher3 on his observations. I took a chance (I am 1 for 4 now) with these CME guitars. Opted for a figured 175 (had CME restring prior to shipping) and the high e rolls off the edge quite easily. Even if I moved it, they appear to have beveled the edges and binding where I am not even sure a refret would correct it (I have done refrets on several guitars with a similar symptom, but I do not think it would even work on this example). Something must have gone wrong during the manufacturing process Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
I have put in for a return. I was thinking of looking into the 59 VOS Sunburst as it lists a wider neck width to begin with so maybe there is more real estate there to work with. This would be a fine guitar for someone used to playing a 1 5/8"" fret width because that is what you end up with.
I can't believe Gibson would normally charge $4200. Thanks for the differing opinions on this website. I find the dialog valuable
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I had the exact same problem with high e rolling off fingerboard with my first ES-335. The second one was fine. Based on numerous reported encounters , the fret beveling and binding roll over on many of these CME Memphis guitars have been problematic, requiring a few returns to get an acceptable one. If your patient and determined you will likely ( eventually) receive an acceptable one at a great price. Originally Posted by rhoadsscholar
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We are seeing way too much of this issue with Memphis. Probably one guy daydreaming on the assembly line.
A new nut and frets would of course fix this no matter what anyone says.
IMO a brand new 175 for $2k + $400 for new frets and nut for a total of $2400 is still a great deal. I am sure CME would replace the guitar or do the fret work at no cost. I have been told there repair team is top notch.
If the guitar is really great except for the fret bevel something to think about.
Nothing has changed from decades ago. I bought a new Gibson back then and the next day Frank Ford was putting new frets and replacing the miss cut nut. That was the norm then also back in the zero fret days.
You want a perfect new Gibson......buy Crimson only. Trust me it will be spot on. Memphis is always a dice roll.
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Originally Posted by John A.
" Twas ever thus. " ( Oliver Hardy )
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Not necessarily true at all. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
I suppose it depends on what one means by “fix”.
Sure with a new nut, frets, and some careful FB work before the re-fret, you can get it playable so long as the sort of string spacing you have with a 1 5/8 nut is OK with the player, or if you accept a tendency to drop E strings over the edge. Some players are great at avoiding this.
But the “rolled” binding and sloppy scraping onto the FB means that often the guitar can not really be set up with clean fret ends of the full width consistent with a 1 11/16 nut width.
Been there, filed that.
The real solution is to replace the binding as well, sometimes taking a little off the FB also to fully get rid of the Gibson workmanship.
I do not at all suggest anyone do all of this on a new guitar. I just do not agree that is fixable with a nut and frets if we mean fixed to the practical level that so many builders and factories produce without incident.
But certainly a nut and frets would get it to the nominal Gibson condition.
ChrisLast edited by ptchristopher3; 02-13-2018 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Spelling
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CME has taken the returns. That is encouraging that they don't mind taking them back (they are getting to know me and wonder if I am on a list somewhere). These don't appear to be recycled returns, they have all looked brand new never displayed. Originally Posted by QAman
From experience from some of the CME folks, is this high e roll-off less likely to occur on the 1959 VOS reissues as they appear to have a wider fret board (more real estate to begin with). Just curious as some folks have bought both. Wasn't sure if the high e problem fret beveling problem showed up on the VOS models.
BTW: Vinny, I am with you on comparing the Crimson Shop stuff the Memphis stuff. I am looking for a laminate companion to my L4-CES. My one good one off the bat was a figured cherry 335 (luck of the draw).
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Originally Posted by John A.
.." Yup - -just coalescing the vapors of the human condition etc etc "
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ptchris you are simply a doom guy. I have bought 4 of these CME 175’s and none of them have rolled binding.
Replacing the binding is pure ridiculous doomsday advice. I have been getting fret jobs on Gibson’s for over 40 years and never once needed the binding replaced. Yes they roll the binding on the VOS models but not the regular 175’s.
On the regular flamed model they make take off the sharp edge very slightly on the binding but that is all they did on mine.
A very simple fretboard plane would completely restore the 1-11/16 string spacing with a new nut and frets.
Glad I have Frank Ford as my luthier.
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Truth! Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
HI Vinny,
I prefer to talk about the guitars rather than the presumed state of mind of someone posting.
I do carry some presumptions regarding your enthusiasm for your purchases, and I presume that you would enjoy others sharing your experience and enthusiasm.
This does not strike me as harmful at all.
Rolled binding is Gibson’s term for what they present as a feature. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Note that I specifically did not advise replacing the binding on a new guitar, but rather characterize what would be required to make a guitar with this rolled binding capable of the setup one could do on a Benedetto, Collings, Sadowsky, and a long list of other guitars claiming the same specifications.
My “advice” (not that I am advising here at all) was to understand that a buyer will quite possibly need to live with some compromises.
Binding replacement is extremely rare. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
But back to the OP guitar - My observation that may be useful to a possible buyer, especially overseas, is that looking at the OP pic at the beginning of this thread would be possibly helpful.
The right side of the binding is blown-out as part of the highlight of the image. But on the left side one can see that about 2/3 of the binding has been scraped away up at fingerboard level.
There is more to it, but i suspect the range of opinions have been covered already.
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In my opinion, the music is not in the guitar, but in the player.
EVERYTHING about the guitar can be understood and measured and made to work in the interest of the player.
I have rulers and calipers and scales, but none of them try to analyze my state of mind as part of the process.
Where state of mind becomes potentially important is at the player/instrument interface. Some love the Gibson products as delivered, which makes for some great playing and great music.
Others find the same products to display a remarkable shortfall vs. even average quality.
It is interesting.
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Hi all,
Thanks for posting this and letting us know about it. We have spoken and looks like all is good. I know some of you were asking for a response so I wanted to make sure you all knew I had read the issue and that our team got it resolved. Be well all!
[email protected]
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Great, yes i think we knew you stepped up on this to help the guy.
Respect to CME of course.
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David.....God bless you my friend. Nice to have a friend in the guitar business ! You certainly take GREAT care of me.
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I took some pictures last night of the one I just received, no need to up load them. That picture on page one is what I am dealing with too. My main concern is not the nut but the bevels. And my finger tips are on the thick side, so I need all the real estate I can get. Good to hear positives regarding CME customer service, my e mail was sent last night. Thanks to whoever resurrected this thread, it didn't come up in my searches.
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Was watching this Gibson factory tour recently. It is impressive how much of the work involved is still human related, even with the plec and all the modern machinery Gibson has. I would imagine that the high number of guitars they have to put out, plus the high workforce turnover that everybody says gibson has the last few years could explain all these shortcomings.
Bear in mind that most buyers would be completely unaware of these problems, or how to solve them. They would just be stuck with a new, extremely expensive problematic guitar. I mean, having to refret a new instument
.. For me personally at least, the possibility of having such issues has been the basic reason not to consider buying a new Gibson, at least without playing it first (which, being left handed would probably be the case)
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I would call CME. They will make it right immediately. Originally Posted by 73Fender
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Very interesting. Thanks for the link. I love factory tours but the only guitar one I’ve been to was Martin several times over the years. Originally Posted by Alter
Was watching this Gibson factory tour recently. It is impressive how much of the work involved is still human related, even with the plec and all the modern machinery Gibson has. I would imagine that the high number of guitars they have to put out, plus the high workforce turnover that everybody says gibson has the last few years could explain all these shortcomings.
Bear in mind that most buyers would be completely unaware of these problems, or how to solve them. They would just be stuck with a new, extremely expensive problematic guitar. I mean, having to refret a new instument.. For me personally at least, the possibility of having such issues has been the basic reason not to consider buying a new Gibson, at least without playing it first (which, being left handed would probably be the case)
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schrodinger's cat?
Just arrived ES175 VOS. Will evaluate tomorrow and report
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Everything seems 'right as rain'. My luthier looked it over as best he could on facetime and thought the strings at the nut looked fine. He'll go over it in person when we get together next week for some pickin, grinning, cheeseburgers and brews. Here's a pic for proof of existence.
I'm stoked. Never imagined I'd own one due to the cost but Sunday's sale made it tolerable. Thanks Dave!
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Good news indeed. Plenty of winter left to stay in and play too.
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@BearDog
Highly recommend you get a dental mirror, flashlight, and inspect the braces. A few of these CME 175s had bracing that was not properly glued.
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Oh man, I am trying to be all happy and blissful. Originally Posted by TedBPhx
EDIT: Maybe best to simply encourage being pleased with these lower prices and not sweat the details.
If I think about the bracing that was not glued for about 6 inches on the 275 I tried, it seems likely that it would not have had any practical effect anyway. Incredibly sloppy, but probably not an actual problem over time.
So maybe best to consider that sort of thing as another aspect of the general character.
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I did do the dental mirror thing, saw nothing amiss in there.
My friend that builds guitars as a hobby will also check it as I mentioned above. He frequently points out details that I had not noticed and was therefore not sweating much to my chagrin. He does help my small stable of instruments perform at their best level.
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