Swing Guitar Choice

[Brucebob]

Nice clips, effective and tasty playing and the Godin fits the need very nicely! Wish I could sing a little (a lot) better. Thanks for posting those, enjoyed them!

[destinytot]

Nice clips, effective and tasty playing and the Godin fits the need very nicely! Wish I could sing a little (a lot) better. Thanks for posting those, enjoyed them!

Thanks very much. I don't really need a bass player in this tuning, for which - and this is my point - the Godin is fit for use.

[Brucebob]

Please overlook my ignorance, the tuning references escapes me, not standard? Thanks!

[destinytot]

But it depends what type of gigs you are doing, and the room in particular.

Sure. I prefer gigs in smaller rooms - while that's for 'artistic' reasons, it would be nice to be able to play without any amplification at all every now and then.

[christianm77]

Sure. I prefer gigs in smaller rooms - while that's for 'artistic' reasons, it would be nice to be able to play without any amplification at all every now and then.

TBH in this case I have found the sheer volume of an acoustic guitar is less a factor than just about everything else - whether or not you are playing with drums, and how that drummer plays, the audience level, the acoustics in the room and so on.

[destinytot]

Please overlook my ignorance, the tuning references escapes me, not standard? Thanks!

It goes (low to high): Bb F C G B D.

[destinytot]

TBH in this case I have found the sheer volume of an acoustic guitar is less a factor than just about everything else - whether or not you are playing with drums, and how that drummer plays, the audience level, the acoustics in the room and so on.

The guitar needn't even be heard - but you soon notice when it suddenly isn't there at all.

[christianm77]

The guitar needn't even be heard - but you soon notice when it suddenly isn't there at all.

Yes, but the drummer needs to be playing in the right way. Most drummers don't. And try persuading a drummer not to play their 22" vintage ride cymbal whenever the bass goes into four. Drummers have greater physical prowess than most guitar players, so this is dangerous territory.

Without drums, it's no problem.

[destinytot]

Yes, but the drummer needs to be playing in the right way. Most drummers don't. And try persuading a drummer not to play their 22" vintage ride cymbal whenever the bass goes into four. Drummers have greater physical prowess than most guitar players, so this is dangerous territory.

Without drums, it's no problem.

Whoever allows that situation to arise deserves whatever they get.

Sorry to be The Jerk here, but... "I don't need bass or drums" (especially if they're socially inept), and I've learned to withdraw before such signs of contempt arise.

[christianm77]

Whoever allows that situation to arise deserves whatever they get.

Sorry to be The Jerk here, but... "I don't need bass or drums" (especially if they're socially inept), and I've learned to withdraw before such signs of contempt arise.

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your meaning, but:

Setting aside the vintage drumming thing.... There is a difference between being somone a great jazz drummer where the ride cymbal is literally the centre of your musical technique and vocabulary, and having an interest in making it work with an acoustic guitarist.

The problem is, you need someone who can do both.

In my experience, I've found drummers with a classical background can be useful here because they view the instrument more orchestrationally and in situations with acoustic instruments... But they also need to be able to improvise and swing. I know one or two such drummers.

Instruments help. Swing era cymbals were smaller and quieter. For instance:

'Gene Krupa used 8" and 13" thin cymbals, 13" and 14" mediums, and a pair of 11" hi-hats in his (1930s) big band. '

http://drummagazine.com/5000-years-in-3000-words-cymbal-history/

Even a modest bebop 22" ride cymbal has twice the vibrating area of a 16" cymbal for instance, 4 times that of a 11". Swing era drummers did ride the cymbal, they just had smaller cymbals.... Oftentimes/always it was the open hi-hat... And of course, swing drummers weren't always riding the cymbal at all because it wasn't the basis of jazz time keeping at that time... But techniques and styles of that era are a specialist area...

Really, modern jazz time keeping on a specific ride cymbal and rhythm guitar on unamplified acoustic guitar didn't really overlap. I think by the 50s Freddie Green was playing miked (might want to check that.)

Also horns got bigger and louder. From Selmer Balanced Action to Mark VI. Trombones got louder too... Probs trumpets as well. Steel strings replaced gut on bass. Hide heads on drums have given way to louder synthetic heads.

In any case, check out Jonathan's drummer(s.) Where do you get them, man?

[destinytot]

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your meaning, but:

There is a difference between being somone a great jazz drummer where the ride cymbal is literally the centre of your musical technique and vocabulary, and having an interest in making it work with an acoustic guitarist.

The problem is, you need someone who can do both.

In my experience, I've found drummers with a classical background can be useful here because they view the instrument more orchestrationally... But they also need to be able to improvise and swing. I know one or tow such drummers.

I was being quite literal.

[destinytot]

I'm not 100% sure if I understand your meaning, but:

Setting aside the vintage drumming thing.... There is a difference between being somone a great jazz drummer where the ride cymbal is literally the centre of your musical technique and vocabulary, and having an interest in making it work with an acoustic guitarist.

The problem is, you need someone who can do both.

In my experience, I've found drummers with a classical background can be useful here because they view the instrument more orchestrationally and in situations with acoustic instruments... But they also need to be able to improvise and swing. I know one or two such drummers.

Instruments help. Swing era cymbals were smaller and quieter. For instance:

'Gene Krupa used 8" and 13" thin cymbals, 13" and 14" mediums, and a pair of 11" hi-hats in his (1930s) big band. '

http://drummagazine.com/5000-years-in-3000-words-cymbal-history/

Even a modest bebop 22" ride cymbal has twice the vibrating area of a 16" cymbal for instance, 4 times that of a 11". Swing era drummers did ride the cymbal, they just had smaller cymbals.... Oftentimes/always it was the open hi-hat... And of course, swing drummers weren't always riding the cymbal at all because it wasn't the basis of jazz time keeping at that time... But techniques and styles of that era are a specialist area...

Really, modern jazz time keeping on a specific ride cymbal and rhythm guitar on unamplified acoustic guitar didn't really overlap. I think by the 50s Freddie Green was playing miked (might want to check that.)

Also horns got bigger and louder. From Selmer Balanced Action to Mark VI. Trombones got louder too... Probs trumpets as well. Steel strings replaced gut on bass. Hide heads on drums have given way to louder synthetic heads.

In any case, check out Jonathan's drummer(s.) Where do you get them, man?

Technology is more relevant to a gear thread than talk about taste, but I'll expand briefly on why "I don't need bass and drums"

My reason is simple, and here it is in my own words: I've found something better to replace them with.

[Brucebob]

Maybe it's time to close this one up. I just wanted to know what people have found to be good practical modest priced swing guitars, I've gotten some useful thoughts on that, and I thank you all!

[savofenno]

Gibson ES-175 top is plywood too, but it has good jazz tone. Impossible?

[helios]

NOTE: WAY Over Indicated Budget!
AJL Guitars | 19" Master 400

[gcb]

Destinytot great clips. Classy.

[christianm77]

Gibson ES-175 top is plywood too, but it has good jazz tone. Impossible?

I like my 68 for swing stuff. It’s not very authentic though lol