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Trying to select a good first archtop guitar for western and jazz swing, primarily acoustic use but a floating pickup for once in a while use would be good also. I want it to stand on it's own acoustically though; there's no where within a few hundred miles to try a selection so that's out. Budget probably 1k to 2k, often buy used when I can. Tired of electrics, amps, cords, and so on. Thanks!
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12-08-2017 10:25 AM
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I’ve been there very recently
I’ve finally found a Loar LH 700 used at a great price, and love it. If I may: NGD Loar LH 700 VS (lots of talk about DeArmond floating pickups, too).
The other candidates would have been an all-solid Eastman, a Guild A 150 (less of an acoustic, but with the plus of the Rhythm Chief already “in”) or a nice old affordable archtop (‘40s and ‘50s budget Epiphones like the Zenith, or a European archtop).
Happy hunt, and don’t forget to let us know how it goes!
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This is an option that is a shameless self promotion.
1965 Guild USA A-150 Cherry Sunbursthttps://applink.reverb.com/item/7038697-1965-guild-usa-a-150-cherry-sunburst
My personal preference would be to try to find a vintage Epiphone though. You can sometimes find a Triumph in the upper end of that price range. I wouldn’t go with a model lower in the Epiphone line than that though.
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No decent guitar shops in Iowa City or Des Moines?
Even some Guitar Centers carry some cool used inventory, kinda depends on the management though.
I'd go poke around Des Moines. Also, Chicago isn't really that far for a fun guitar shopping expedition.
I stumbled into my '34 L-7 locally . . . got lucky I guess.
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Not much around Iowa City; lots of Strats, Teles and Epiphones, rarely an archtop. Guitar Center does have some interesting things, but most often not; Des Moines maybe. I'm sure the Twin Cities or Chicago or St. Louis would, Dave's in Lacrosse likely would have some candidates, I'm trying to get up there some time soon. I just don't go to the big cities much, by choice. I'm looking and will continue, thanks!
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I've never played a Loar but they sound cool on the internet. Your options for a non-vintage instrument are essentially Loar or Eastman. I have an Eastman AR910 with a DeArmond Rhythm Chief Reissue. It's stung with bronze strings and by adjusting the pole pieces I was able to balance the electric volume.
If you are looking at vintage, Epiphone Triumphs can sometimes be found in your price range.
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Ditto on the Epi Triumph recommendation!
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A non-cut Epi Triumph would be a good choice, however for a example without issues it's gonna be at the top of your budget unless you get real lucky. There was a Epiphone Devon on Joe V's site that I would have snapped up. The Devon is kind of a sleeper if you can find one. Not sure I agree with comment about not going below the Triumph in the vintage Epi's 30's to early 50's-I've heard and played Blackstones and Zeniths that were very good sounding instruments.
Originally Posted by Brucebob
If you really want to think outside the box, have you considered a Gypsy Jazz guitar? You can find a high quality Altamira or Latcho Drom for the lower end of your budget that will simply blow just about any archtop out of the water volume wise. You would definitely stand out in the crowd performing Western Swing on one!
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You can find a good non cut Triumph for under 2K, you just have to be patient, That would be an excellent choice.
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The archtops that were mostly used as acoustic instruments were parallel braced rather than X braced. Apparently this is for projection purposes. So the Epiphone Triumph I believe is parallel braced as opposed to Eastmans which are X braced affairs.
This may be heracy but Dennis Budimer (L.A. session player as well as Jazz Guitarist) claimed he had an Ovation acoustic that sounded just like an old 16" L-5 Acoustic for his session dates.
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This one?
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That looks to be a 1930's Gibson L-12?
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L7. L12 had parallelogram inlays. Those are windowpane. From the looks of it, it's from between 1934 and 1938. 1939 also featured those inlays but the scale was longer by then. This appears to be short scale. Originally Posted by jads57
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it's a 16" early 30's L-12 Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
parallelograms on L-7 started in '40
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Another thought is a Godin 5th Avenue--either the Kingpin with P90 or put a floater on the acoustic 5th Avenue (like I did). I put on a GFS, sounds surprisingly good for the low price. I also have a vintage Harmony with the DeArmond RC 1000 reissue which I like a lot.
The acoustic sound of the 5th Avenue is very good and the build quality is excellent.
Dave's in La Crosse is great but I don't think will have any of the above: Guild, Eastman, Loar. He's strictly big name products, some used. There's a new vintage place in La Crosse that might have some stuff though, also a cool acoustic place in Viroqua and a really cool acoustic place in Madison (Spruce Street) as well as Guitar Shop of Madison.
There are a couple of places in Council Bluffs and Omaha if you don't mind a bit of a drive that carry Loar and Eastman.
The Twin Cities has several excellent places (Willie's, Lavonne's) with vintage gear that will have a good selection of the above. Sounds like you need a road trip through the upper midwest in midwinter LOL!
I would not hesitate buying a Godin online site unseen--the QC is just so good. The others...well I'd want to try before I buy.
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That guitar appears to be 17" in bout width to me. I happen to have a 16 and a 17 sitting next to me. I think Cliff White's guitar much more closely matches the dimensions of the 17. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Last edited by omphalopsychos; 12-08-2017 at 06:07 PM.
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Good point about Blackstones, ST. I shouldn’t have said that. I have a Blackstone with an atrocious refinish done by someone at home sometime over the last 70 years. It’s not pretty, but it sounds amazing and is actually a real cannon. I personally haven’t heard a Zenith that I would put in the same league though. Originally Posted by SierraTango
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Thanks to everyone for your replies; I know this has been beat to death here and elsewhere, appreciate your patience. I have read lots of threads on this, and I also know it's very subjective and a matter of personal taste and style as well. Mills Brothers, nice! All good stuff!
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norman brown-a mills brothers guitarist
btw, one of normans "mills brothers guitars" showed up on pbs' antiques roadshow
1956 N. Brown-Owned Gibson L-5C Guitar |
Antiques Roadshow | PBS
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 12-09-2017 at 02:59 PM. Reason: sp-
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nice budget western swing guitar...(if you find a good one)..is modern epi emperor regent...have played quite a few that were very full and vibrant (LOUD) acoustically..
and you may be able to find used locally
cheers
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Don't waste time with a laminate top guitar. Buy a Loar. Or buy a used non-cutaway Eastman if you can find one.
There are no other options except vintage or luthier built, and you'll be well served with a Loar and something like a reissue DeArmond.
On the X-braced vs. parallel-braced thing - there are generalities, but it doesn't mean you can find an x-braced guitar that can have a punch. My 2004 Eastman 805 non-cutaway is x-braced, and its a killer guitar. It did 10 years of duty playing swing rhythm with plenty of punch, and even after picking up a '32 L-5, a '39 L-5, a '32 Deluxe and a '35 (advanced) L-12, it still totally held its own.
And also, the X-braced L-12 sounded huge acoustically, it just didn't have the ideal frequency response for a swing band, especially as compared to the L-5's or the Deluxe. And the Eastman actually has a ton of punch in the midrange.
Lastly, that's clearly an 17" advanced L-7, but before they went with parallelograms, which means it's probably X-braced. Probably.
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Those current Epiphone Masterbilt look good to me.
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They look stunning, but the few I’ve tried were disappointing as acoustic guitars. They were, actually, not much louder than my Epi Broadway, which is fairly quiet. Nor did I like the acoustic tone that much. Granted, it may have been the choice of strings or the set-up, but everything I’ve read around sort of confirms my impression. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Those current Epiphone Masterbilt look good to me.
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Hey Brucebob, nice to hear from a fellow Western swing enthusiast! I recently went through the same torment trying to make a decision for my next axe. I'll say right up front that after much research Jonathan is absolutely right about the one authentic non-vintage choice that is readily available being a Loar with a Guild/DeArmond repro floating pickup - I just can't afford it. Did a quick Google now looking for the LH-600 (never found here in Canada) and see a few around. Good example at $1360 US including shipping. Rhythm Chief 1100 repro is $185 US. So that's $1545 US before taxes and duty applied. Folks, that's $1985 Canadian, again before I get dinged another 12% for taxes and whatever they want for duty ("services not rendered" as I call it), which will be hundreds more as well. The better LH-700 starts at $2000 before shipping, tax and duty.
And the Loar might arrive in desperate need of serious intervention - search for stories about this, you'll find them. That said, if you get in touch and wait for him to get one, you can probably get a good one through Steve Zook (Google is your friend) or maybe find one locally.
So for me anyway, up here in Canada it all distilled down to what really amounts to a no-brainer. I'd say, but it's out for delivery to me today so I'll just keep ya in suspense until I can do a NGD post.
Good luck in your quest, I look forward to finding out what you decide on.
EDIT: just found that djangobooks.com sells the LH-700 for considerably less than I'm used to seeing. Maybe some day...Last edited by Mike Anderson; 12-09-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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