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Could you share your thoughts on this subject?
Every 6 months I try a new set of roundwounds, but it usually just lasts for a couple of days (or less) and I go back to flats, running.
But, at the same time, being a big fan of guys like Mike Moreno and Jonathan Kreisberg - their playing, their tone (and how they use it) - I'm never settled with this subject, too..
My biggest problem is picking. I switched to something related with Benson a few years ago and it's so noisy on the low E/A strings. But these guys manage to play it so clean... I feel I'm almost there if I pick almost parallel on the low E a gradually increase the angle as I move to the high E.
The past weekend I saw Mike Moreno, live, four times - 1 clinic and 2 sets in trio on Saturday and a solo gig the next day (amazing!) He was right in front of me and the left hand finger noise was there, but really nothing serious. His huge chord work benefits a lot from the roundwounds IMO, but his picking sounds almost like he's on flatwounds.
Moreno and Kreisberg (I'm not sure about Gilad Hekselman, if he uses rounds) manage to have a great modern sound, and pull out a classic tone whenever they want, I feel that roundwounds open up a certain palette of tones to them - I know their technique is amazing, it's almost all in their hands for sure.
I'd like to be able to use rounds more consistently.
And my troubles only got worse with the arrival of my new (CME) 175
She came with rounds, feeling like a .12 set (wounded G) and she sounds so gorgeous and huge that I'm even afraid to try flats on this one.
Anyway, I'd appreciate anything you can share on this. Thanks!
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10-27-2017 10:39 PM
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Try a different pick. That's about the only thing I can think of. I use rounds on just about everything, because I don't like the sound of flats, they're just too dull and lifeless for me. I don't hear much pick noise from the strings, and it's not because of my great technique. I'm far from professional, and my picking technique is not at all good. I'm not sure what you're hearing, but round wound strings are very common with contemporary guitarists, and I don't hear string noise from many. The only thing that comes to mind as a source of string noise is picking along the string, not parallel to it. The orientation of the pick to the string shouldn't make a big difference, as long as the pluck is perpendicular to the string.
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Some guitars sound great with flats, some with rounds. I used to have two hollowbody Guilds, and one was really good with flats, and just ok with rounds, and another sounded terrible with flats, so not even a choice.
I'm not particularly chasing anyone's sound, but I found pure nickel rounds is for me. I feel that noise-wise pure nickel are almost as noise free as flats. But I do remember nickel wound rounds were bothering me too. Maybe give pure nickel a try? Mine are Daddarios EPN 115
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That's the pick orientation, as you said. If I pick close to parallel (the angle, not the motion) to the lower strings there's little noise, but that same angle on the higher strings remove the really warm sound I get from the Benson-style picking. So right now what I have is a compromise... have to work my angle from almost parallel to so 45 degress, from edge to edge.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
I remember also reading here somewhere that Kreisberg uses some lemon oil on the strings...
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Hum... probably you have a good point in there. I never really payed attention to the metal type of the rounds. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Your post reminded me of something I read about Julian Lage using roundwounds recently... I just goggled it and bingo? ... it's nickel.
D'Addario Strings : Artist Details : Julian Lage
Thank you, guys!
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I'm with Hep. Flats for some, rounds for others.
I use my Eastman Pisano AR680 for the Mike Moreno / Gilad Hekselman stuff, and I keep it with rounds. That guitar sounds terrible with flats. The thing with Gilad is that he's usually playing at a volume where you don't hear the finger noise. And on his records, I think they only mic the amp (?). I know he's into his whole piezo thing, so maybe he gets some of that sound in recordings but I don't see him use the piezo live.
Regarding Mike Moreno. He has a master class online about technique and articulation. He talks a lot about how he plays there. He's really into hybrid and finger picking, so you can imagine he's invested a lot of time getting his plectrum and finger technique to sound the same.
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That makes sense. As I said, my new 175 sure sounds amazing with rounds, to the point that I don't want to change strings, afraid to mess with it Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
About Mike Moreno: man... I saw him doing his magic in front of me. His right hand is restless, he's constantly switching from pick, to hybrid, to hiding the pick with his index and plucking with the rest, to do huge portions of melody with just his pinky! And what's more, as you said, you don't hear any drastic sound changes, he makes it all sound just natural.
But even from a 5 feet distance sometimes it's hard to make a connection from what you're seeing to what you're hearing!
Also another great point in your post, I must check how much noise comes out the amp, compared to what I hear when playing.
..
but I don't want to limit this to string noise, feel free to throw into this whatever comes to mind about rounds and jazz!
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Only one other thing. Gilad uses a compression as an element of his sound. I think that makes more sense with rounds. Rounds have more natural sustain. Compression on flats kind of ruins the whole flavor of flats, but a an archtop with rounds, a humbucker, and compression, sounds pretty cool if you're into the MM/GH sound. Originally Posted by JPG
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My 2012 175 came with fantastic rounds, i think L5 they may be were called and no longer available. it has never sounded quite as good. I wonder what strings Gibson use now as I have been able to find a Gibson set with a wound G. D’addario pure nickel round close but don’t quite growl like those Gibson rounds.
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I always think the Gibson acoustic strings that come on their flat tops sound really good too -- but they don't last, so I usually prefer D'addario for the long run. I play rounds on all my guitars. Some years ago I complained about string noise to a guy working in a local shop and he suggested that coated strings would help. I found this to be true and very helpful at the time -- I like Elixirs on many of my electrics. I don't like coated strings on every guitar (acoustics in particular), but I have found that over time my issues with string noise have lessened greatly. I occasionally go through periods of trying out different strings and it seems like some brands are stickier and noisier than others. My noise problems tend to be more moving left hand chord grip issues than right hand pick.
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I did not care for the half round strings I tried but I do like Newtone Archtop Double Wound sets I tried. They aren’t as noisy as regular wound strings.
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Roundwounds 90% of the time and that other 10% is half-wounds (DA Half-Rounds or TI Bebop). Don't like flatwounds they are muddy sounding to me especially for chords.
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I tried flats......once
They sounded....dull and flat.
Back to rounds and the sparkle came back.
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Every once in awhile, I try a set of rounds on a new guitar, just to see if that guitar might sound better to me with roundwounds. I never wear out the roundwounds. After a month or two, the TI flats go back on.
But at least that way I know.
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Flats on my 90s L4
Rounds on my Victor Baker 15.
When i first got my VB i thought it was too bright with the rounds on there, mainly because i wasn't used to it. Once I dialed it in i cant put it down, love the round wounds. Also i use this pick. Its made my Graphtec TUSQ 1.00mm (warm) its a jazz III ripoff but its a warmer great sounding pick if that makes sense.
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Hi OP, Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
roger that, on compression.
I'll try that, for sure.
Again, from watching MM live the other day - I took some photos of his pedalboard - I don't think he was using compression, and he uses a fairly "simple" pedalboard.
Gilad, on the other hand, seems to take his pedals to another level. But I don't know his recordings as well as I do MM or JK.
My feel, from what I hear, is that MM takes the most "advantage" of his rounds, in his sound. Some of his chords are full (5 strings, all right hand fingers into play) and sound very piano/harp like. It's where I hear his round-sound the most.
Kreisberg, I 'know' he uses rounds - but if someone would tell me those where flats, I'd believe!
(mental note on compression, thanks!)
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I just called the guys at CME and they told me it would be either D'Addario (colored ball ends) or Gibson (silver ball ends) - so that would be Gibson in the case of my recent 175... but they also mentioned being 10s - but I measured them with a caliper gauge and the result is more consistent with .12s. Originally Posted by gggomez
"growl" that's a nice word to describe to sound I'm hearing!
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I tried Elixirs on my SG and liked them. But that was a .11 set, and the SG is a different beast than a 175 (incidentally my two favorite guitars). Originally Posted by Longways to Go
The noise I get is a lot more from the left/fretting hand, too. The right hand it's a mix of noise with the unpleasent feeling of the pick hitting the rounded wounds.
After playing with it for the whole evening the left hand noise is really to a degree I don't recall.. maybe that's the 175 amplifying it, but its a bit above what I can manage!
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Thanks, never heard of those double wound sets - will investigate! Originally Posted by TedBPhx
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Yeah, me too, so far. I have them on all my guitars, even had them on dreadnoughts .. and strats, ands SGs Originally Posted by guido5
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I hear you. But sometimes you need just that .. I wish I could have both worlds in a single set! Originally Posted by wintermoon
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That's exactly my experience, just in my case I go back, if that much, in a week! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Every once in awhile, I try a set of rounds on a new guitar, just to see if that guitar might sound better to me with roundwounds. I never wear out the roundwounds. After a month or two, the TI flats go back on.
But at least that way I know.
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So.... I just had to try my usual D'Addario .12 flats on the 175, and they work great too!
On one hand, they're not so crisp and piano/harp like, as the original rounds, namely on chord work, but on the other hand I feel that the inner voices of complex chords do stand out a lot more with the flats - that came as a surprise! Must get back to the woodshed
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I'm just getting back into playing an archtop after not having had one and using a semi with roundwounds exclusively for several years. My current archtop (Godin Kingpin) came with flats, and I didn't like the feel at all. I'm not sure what kind they were, but I found my fingers kind of sticking on the strings. I switched to rounds, and (unsurprisingly) the guitar sounded better and more "acoustic" unplugged (not as different when plugged in), but the biggest difference was playability. Surprisingly (at least to me, since in past I've found flats and rounds about the same in terms of playability), I found the rounds much easier to play. So far, I've tried Martin "Retros" (monel), and regular D'Addario XL rounds (nickel plated windings), and found them to be about the same in playability and tone (though the Retros are a little louder unplugged). As far as brightness is concerned, the tone control on this guitar/pup (single P-90) is quite responsive and I'm able to dial brightness in or out to taste effectively, and am not finding brightness to be an issue one way or the other. At some point, I may try a set of D'Addario Chromes (which, IME are a little more like rounds than other flats), but I think at least for this guitar, the verdict is in and I prefer rounds.
John
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I pretty much use rounds on everything now (except have not yet swapped out the flat on my small-body Schaefer since I've only had it back for a couple weeks) and I prefer it but partly because I have a dark sounding thick pick and my main gig/jam amp also leans towards dark. I do notice however that through my smaller Mambo 8 the tone is perhaps not quite as pleasing using rounds as it was when using flats, but I haven't spent a lot of time playing with this yet (and partly I am now seduced by the sound of larger speakers in general).
Rounds mellow out after a few days so maybe you just need to give them a bit more time and perhaps roll the tone off a little bit on the guitar; with flats I always ran my tone wide open but with rounds I back it off a little bit.
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