Disappointed in 1970 Gibson ES-175 from Dave's Guitar.

[agentsmith]

Here's the ad:

Gibson ES-175 Sunburst 1971 | Reverb

I emailed them prior to purchasing to ask if there were any cracks, mods, if the neck was straight, trussrod worked, any buzzing, what string setup it had, etc.

I was told low action, no buzzing, no cracks, everything is working perfectly. The only issue is that the frets are pretty low but it had just been setup with d'addario .012 flats and played perfectly.
called them to find out if there were any odors and was told no.

When I got it, the action was super low and it buzzed like a sitar. It had .011 strings and not .012s too. It also reeked of mildew. I raised it up a bit and noticed that the neck was reverse bowed so I loosened the truss rod slightly which cured some of the buzzing in the middle of the instrument but even with the higher action, I found that it buzzed very badly on the 15th fret. Either a high fret or a tailrise is likely.

Then, as I was examining the guitar, I noticed a 2-3" crack in the neck body joint on the cutaway side. (See attachment).

Also, the D tuner is horribly bent!

Very disappointed as this was a $3k guitar and I was told it would go through a rigorous pre-shipping setup and quality control evaluation. Obviously, none of this was done even though it came with an inspection certificate.

[rlrhett]

That is a serious looking crack. Knowing the construction of that neck, I can't picture how that developed without the headblock and/or dovetail being compromised. I don't think that is trivial or cosmetic.


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[agentsmith]

That is a serious looking crack. Knowing the construction of that neck, I can't picture how that developed without the headblock and/or dovetail being compromised. I don't think that is trivial or cosmetic.


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Yeah looks like the binding was cut too, probably to do a repair. I just can't believe this was supposedly inspected. I am continually amazed that people sell guitar that buzz and when you ask them about buzzing they'll tell you to your face that it plays perfectly without buzzing but the horribly bent D string tuner and this crack is pretty hard to miss.

[vinnyv1k]

Completely unacceptable. I tried to work out several deals with Dave. He was always a tad on the rude side and would never give me a acceptable price. I have heard nothing but praise for his shop but I have yet to be able to see it.

Sorry Jack...... :-(

[R Neil]

Here's the ad:

Gibson ES-175 Sunburst 1971 | Reverb

I emailed them prior to purchasing to ask if there were any cracks, mods, if the neck was straight, trussrod worked, any buzzing, what string setup it had, etc.

I was told low action, no buzzing, no cracks, everything is working perfectly. The only issue is that the frets are pretty low but it had just been setup with d'addario .012 flats and played perfectly.
called them to find out if there were any odors and was told no.

When I got it, the action was super low and it buzzed like a sitar. It had .011 strings and not .012s too. It also reeked of mildew. I raised it up a bit and noticed that the neck was reverse bowed so I loosened the truss rod slightly which cured some of the buzzing in the middle of the instrument but even with the higher action, I found that it buzzed very badly on the 15th fret. Either a high fret or a tailrise is likely.

Then, as I was examining the guitar, I noticed a 2-3" crack in the neck body joint on the cutaway side. (See attachment).

Also, the D tuner is horribly bent!

Very disappointed as this was a $3k guitar and I was told it would go through a rigorous pre-shipping setup and quality control evaluation. Obviously, none of this was done even though it came with an inspection certificate.

Wowza ... that's a rig needing to go back.

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[Stringswinger]

In any industry that deals in used stuff, the guys whose moral compass is screwed up will do better than those who are honest. That is the sad truth. I do not trust dealers very much and this Internet market has brought a whole new crop of unscrupulous sellers into the fray.

Face to face deals are still the best.

[agentsmith]

i too have heard nothing but great praise for Dave's but this guitar obviously didn't get more than 30 seconds worth of inspection.

[agentsmith]

i'm visiting Manhattan next month to visit my son who's an attorney for Skadden. I'll probably look for a 175 while I'm there. It's probably worth paying more money to have it in my hands and buy from a reputable dealer.

[agentsmith]

incidentally, the guitar sounded great although it was very bright. Much lighter build than my '89 which was much lighter than what they're making today. Wish I had kept my '89 but at the time I had suffered an injury and wasn't sure I'd be able to play again...

[Stringswinger]

incidentally, the guitar sounded great although it was very bright. Much lighter build than my '89 which was much lighter than what they're making today. Wish I had kept my '89 but at the time I had suffered an injury and wasn't sure I'd be able to play again...

Jack,

My experience is that 175's with T-Top PUPS are bright. So a 175 from 1967 through 1980 will sound brighter than the 57-66 examples (PAF's and early Patent Sticker PUPS) and the 81 and later (Shaw PUPS to 57 Classics).

The 175's made after 99 do seem to be either overbuilt (standard models) or way too thin sounding (59 reissue).

I like Humbuckers and a fat, warm sound and I am not a fan of thick necks or narrow nuts. So for me the good years for a 175 are 1960-1964 and 1981-1998.

But I would bet that a 69-75 (full size nut, no volute, wood bridge and light build) would sound great with a different PUP. My 63 came to me with T-Tops and was pretty bright. With early Patent Sticker PUPS, it is a very warm guitar. The tone difference is dramatic.

[agentsmith]

yeah, the '89 was much darker for sure but acoustically the '70 was brighter as well

[jads57]

Dave Roger's and his staff are AAA+++ in all of years of knowing and dealing with them. Call Dave personally and he'll make it right for you Jack. I would never hesitate in dealing with them or Peter Wagoner from Lavonne Music in Savage,Mn. 2 of the most trusted honest guys in the music store business I have ever dealt with in over 40 years of buying and selling gear

[mr. beaumont]

Well, the only way to make this right is full refund and pay for the shipping.

[Cunamara]

Dunb question- is it the same guitar as in the ad?

[rio]

Wow that is completely unacceptable. I will be curious to see what the resolution - I am very wary of buying online and seeing this I would never order from them. That is another difference with online sales vs face to face - the latter I might give a shop the benefit of the doubt and go there myself to check it out but online? Online is basically only what you hear 2nd hand and the if it is bad then I will always stay clear. Even hearing other glowing reviews doesn't change that and really the only acceptable response is a profuse apology, some sort of explanation and a full refund with them paying for shipping. I would be really pissed if I were in your shoes.


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[Stringswinger]

yeah, the '89 was much darker for sure but acoustically the '70 was brighter as well

Considering the heavier build and different woods in the back and sides, I would expect the 89 to be darker acoustically as well.

BTW, if it has Gibson embossed in the PUP covers, it is probably a 71 or 72, not a 70.

[callouscallus]

They must not of know who they were F%$#in' with! Hope you find a good one Jack!

[mad dog]

Not right at all. That stuff has to be disclosed. Stories like this make me reluctant to buy hollowbodies without being able to see them first. Even in stores, I've seen a few that were clearly in need of restoration, being promoted as mint examples, perfect as is.

If you're going to be in the NYC, check out Golden Age guitars at their new location in Westfield NJ. John has a '69 ES-175 there. I don't know the details, but it appeared to be in very good condition ... only had a quick look.

MD

[mercosound]

Buying a guitar sight unseen has always been unnerving for me; now I remember why... Good luck with getting a quick resolution to that unacceptable sale.

The last time I was in NY (Dec.), I played a really nice 50s 175 at Rudy's Music in SOHO. No idea if it's still there, but visiting Rudy's shop is always great fun.

[agentsmith]

In theory, you pay a bit more buying used from a dealer because of the inspection process. Kind of ironic...

[Woody Sound]

Here's the ad:

Gibson ES-175 Sunburst 1971 | Reverb

I emailed them prior to purchasing to ask if there were any cracks, mods, if the neck was straight, trussrod worked, any buzzing, what string setup it had, etc.

I was told low action, no buzzing, no cracks, everything is working perfectly. The only issue is that the frets are pretty low but it had just been setup with d'addario .012 flats and played perfectly.
called them to find out if there were any odors and was told no.

When I got it, the action was super low and it buzzed like a sitar. It had .011 strings and not .012s too. It also reeked of mildew. I raised it up a bit and noticed that the neck was reverse bowed so I loosened the truss rod slightly which cured some of the buzzing in the middle of the instrument but even with the higher action, I found that it buzzed very badly on the 15th fret. Either a high fret or a tailrise is likely.

Then, as I was examining the guitar, I noticed a 2-3" crack in the neck body joint on the cutaway side. (See attachment).

Also, the D tuner is horribly bent!

Very disappointed as this was a $3k guitar and I was told it would go through a rigorous pre-shipping setup and quality control evaluation. Obviously, none of this was done even though it came with an inspection certificate.

Why post all this stuff here before contacting Dave's?

[Alter]

That's why it's always a good idea to get detailed photos of every area of the guitar when buying online, no matter who the dealer is. You won't hear the buzz, but you would have seen the crack..

[Doctor Jeff]

Sorry you've had that experience. I've bought several from Dave's in person. One Alvarez nylon string had a dent in it, which I happened to notice after I brought it home. I took it back and showed them, and they gave me another off the rack right there, no questions asked.

I personally think they have a great staff (almost all gigging guitarists, btw), but sometimes things slip through the cracks. And Dave can come across brusque on the phone or in person--he's wired a little tight--but he's a standup guy IMO.

Did you bring it to their attention? Curious how they responded.

[jasaco]

Is it just my impression, or does this happen to you on a regular and repeating basis? What's up with that? Maybe you just buy more axes than the rest of us and your luck isn't really any worse than anyone else's, you just have more opportunities for issues to arise...? Not trying to be confrontative, Jack, but it seems a bit odd...

[mr. beaumont]

Well, look at what Jack buys...he''s going for player''s instruments, not museum pieces...that means when he finds a good one it can be a lot of guitar at a good price, but also it carries it's risks.