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I know, I've pretty much worn out a lot of you guys by now. But I wanted to make one last recording of my Beloved Gibson Johnny Smith, before the new frets are installed.
Part of me wants to make this Guitar absolutely perfect and the new frets will take care of that. But I still wonder if I shouldn't just keep this guitar bone stock, in its near Mint current state. Its only a week away. I'd like some opinions, please.
Here is a video of one of the prettiest tunes of all time.
If they get the internet up in heaven, I hope Johnny likes this one. I added a run onto the end just to show you guys that I can still play something other than 1/2 and Whole notes.
Thanks for listening.
Joe D.
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12-26-2016 07:48 PM
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I vote for the "conservative" approach, although I consider myself a liberal :-)
It is better for your brain to experience slight alterations and small challenges in readjusting from guitar to guitar. Diversity is nice. What is the point of having several guitars if you homogenize them ?
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Do you make your wife drive in the snow on bald tires because the tires are factory installed ?
Is their a risk of a lacquer chip or binding crack installing new frets....yes but slim.
What is more important to you ? A guitar that is bone stock and visually perfect or a guitar that plays and sounds
perfect.
Is this guitar a player or does it belong in the glass coffin to just look at. Are you keeping it forever or selling it ?
Sometimes a real nice axe will become a false idol like a Buddha statue.
I was like that with my Tal because it was so pretty. Now is has a couple binding nib cracks and I play it way more now.
Sometimes if a guitar is too perfect you are afraid to do anything with it. I too hate nicks and scratches but sometimes they are necessary to get you to realize it is just a tool to make music. It is like a brand new car. After a couple car door dings you don't worry as much about it. You just drive it and you don't park it far away from the store anymore.
My vote is for the fret job. Tone and playability must come first though bro you know I am as anal as you. Make this axe perfect for you !Last edited by vinnyv1k; 12-26-2016 at 08:29 PM.
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I vote for the fret job if Ronaldo does it.
Great tune Joe, made me go look up Nina Simone singing it which was tres haunting.
Nice talking to you today Paisan...
Big
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beautiful tone and playing as is...but if you want perfection and think a fret job will get you there, then do it...it already sounds great, so why not a tweak to make it play great (for you)...
just don't route the top for 4 pickups!! haha
cheers
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Tough call JD. New Frets will change the tone a bit (they always do) and that guitar sounds great (but all guitars sound great in your hands). If it were me, I would probably play it at least until it had some divots in the frets, but you gotta do what your heart tells you to do.
Forget about "all original" focus on playability. If those frets hamper your style, they gotta go. If it's marginally OK, maybe you might keep them a bit longer.
Using Vinny's car analogy, if you bought a car and the tires had good tread and the car drove fine, would you spend a bunch of dough on new high performance tires?
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All I can say is Joe, I hope your playing life is such that that beautiful Johnny Smith will need several fret jobs from all the beautiful music you make with it!
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Nice Joe - - really nice !
Thanks !
Wow - you've sure nailed that sound !
If that guitar, and the music coming from it, is to be your own, I wouldn't worry a bit about keeping it ' bone stock '.....
By changing the frets, you won't hurt the sound at all - -by definition - -'cause you'll still be playing it ! And maybe your approach would be a little more relaxed, because the instrument wouldn't ( seem to ) have that fragility to it, whether that's justified or not..... (( Those frets can sometimes make me feel I'm trying to juggle Faberge Eggs while wearing boxing gloves. ))
I'll always admire & like your playing either way, so whatever you decide is fine !
Good luck Joe and thanks again !
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Your playing always impresses me.
But this time. That tone is SO good--it ought to be illegal.
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It takes some getting used to new frets no matter how good a job it is. But it doesn't take long in my experience if it's well done.
I had some trepidation having a 100% stock vintage Gibson refretted once. But I knew I wouldn't sell it and just wanted it playing and sounding it's best. I even went up a fret size. Its been 20 yrs and occasionally I'll come across the little baggy with the originals and think that's just where they belong.
Btw Joe, I always thought your guitars sounded similar in your videos no matter what you were playing, but you can really tell that's a Gibson Johnny Smith.
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Even though this is the gear thread, we all want fo play to play beyond our ability ( or in my case, 50% of your ability). Whatever helps you reach further is what you should do. These are first and foremost implements to express your artistry.
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Some really great points here.
If these frets were worn, it would make the decision to change them automatic. But, I'm not sure this guitar was ever really played much and I think the frets are the way they were when they were new.
I will go ahead with the new frets. And I will play and cherish this guitar for as long as god gives me the ability.
Mikey, it was great talking to you today. Its always great talking to you buddy. If Ronaldo was still able to do the frets without damaging the guitar, I would love for him to the do the job.
Vinny, you are right and thanks for taking the time to set me straight, again..
Neatomic, thanks buddy. Don't worry the only holes in this guitar will be the 2 shaped like f's..
SS, your advice is always sound, and I always follow it. The frets do hamper the guitars playability. They are going.. thanks bro.
c74, as always you are 100% class all the way.
Dennis, you are right on the money bro. Boxing gloves and all. The frets will go. Thanks for the beautiful things you say. Always.
wintermoon, yeah this is a Smith all right.. What I always wanted. My baby for keeps. You even feel different when you are playing it. It is the real deal.
GW77, it's nice seeing you around here again. I value your contributions. Yes the GJS has the tone in spades..
Richpiv, thanks buddy. You and the general consensus here is right. This guitar will be the best playing tone monster for me. Thank for the nice words..
Medblues, Sorry bro. But I understand where you are coming from. But I will continue to challenge myself and push my boundaries in other ways.. if Johnny and Pass aren't enough, maybe I'll try flight of the bumble bees..
Once again, I love this place. All you guys are the best. Thanks from my heart..
Joe D
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Right call bro. If you played like Pat Martino I would say leave it but you love chord melody. The bigger frets are a must for your great style of playing. You shouldn't have to change your playing style or technique to accommodate a guitar. It must be the other way around.
I can't wait. Big Joe is going to be one happy boy. You got your dream axe and soon it will play better than it looks.
I know your stress though bro. Like taking your Porsche to the body shop. It better come back perfect.....
Don't worry.....it will. Uncle Vinny will say a little prayer.
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Joe, the "right decision" in this matter is of such personal nature that i'd suggest you to make a list of pros and cons and go from there.
It will help to really write down everything concerned which comes to your mind, take a few days until the list is fairly complete and go from there for the final decision.
I wish you good luck!
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A couple thoughts:
Like strings, albeit at a slower rate, frets are expected to be changed after years of play. Playability and intonation trump original mojo. The guitar after all is a vehicle to create music. I still recommend taking to to a master luther like Bill Comins who builds archtops for a fret job and an overall inspection (inside and out) vs. someone strictly repairs.
Great playing as always...
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Good luck with the refret (and with The Flight Of The Bumblebee), I agree that eventually the frets will be changed and no real harm in doing it (a lot) earlier for some comfort. Cheers !
Originally Posted by Max405
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No advise on the fret job but REALLY enjoyed your playing Joe.
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Joe,
Do yourself a favor and treat yourself to new frets. My humble opinion. I've never regretted a new fret job. I'm a player. It's my guitar. I do whatever I want with it. You're only here for a short time, so, Enjoy the guitar while you can however you want it to be. It won't hurt the guitar.
Steve
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Pondering this and reading the comments, I appreciate the thoughtfulness that Joe is putting into his job as curator of this guitar and the thoughtfulness of the responses. My thought is this: with a few exceptions, guitars are tools for making music and not some sort of holy relic. If new frets will make your GJS a better tool with which to make music, then get new frets. I've only played two GJSes and that was 35 years ago; my recollection is thinking "jeez these frets are tiny." I don't remember either of them being more difficult to play as a result, but I could barely play then.
If you were making a double cutaway out of it or something like that, it'd be a different story and I'd argue against it. New frets do not irrevocably change the character of the guitar except in a micro-fashion. If they help you make a little more beauty in the world, that is a good thing! We need more beauty.
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Joe,
I've probably mentioned this to you before, but my 1984 J.S. Has factory low fret wire as well. At some point, and when time permits, I'll refret it. This morning I finished up a complete refret on a 1961 Gibson J50. The difference in playability and sound clarity is huge. I say go for it. especially if you really dig the guitar and trust your luthier. I wouldn't let anyone talk you into stainless wire. while it polishes up nicely, and lasts a long time, it just doesn't sound good to my ear. There is an associated "ping" with the notes that makes for less warmth. Kind of brittle. Some may disagree. Good luck.
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Hey buddy, Do you like the EVO gold wire? My luthier does. And by the way, he understudied Tommy Doyle. Trust me GH, there isn't a luthier that I've ever met who is gonna talk you INTO stainless frets.. Thanks buddy. Originally Posted by guitarcarver
Cunamara, the more I think of it, the more I think there is no good reason for me to keep the almost non-existent frets on this guitar. I want this guitar to be itself yet I'd like the playability to mimic the L5. Im doing it! Originally Posted by Cunamara
LAJoe, thank you brother. How's that L5 doing? Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
JD
hey Steve, great advice buddy. Originally Posted by skykomishone
thanks all, Joe D
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Joe,
Regardless of what you do with the guitar--i.e., fret job or no--the chart "I Loves You Porgy" that you posted is outstanding. Your playing is very sensitive. I'm sure Johnny Smith would approve.
The guitar and amp sound absolutely fantastic. THIS is what the Gibson Johnny Smith is all about.
Thanks for giving the rest of us 2:45 of sonic beauty.
GT
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You guys are enablers extraordinaire. That's not news of course.
I have a different opinion, although it may be too late. I'd be hesitant to refret it unless it's truly a barrier to your playing.
The fretwire was chosen almost certainly with Johnny's input. He could have vetoed it. Many, maybe most, of the early instruments were close to fretless. Hundreds of happy guitarists have done well with them.
The main reason I would hesitate in refretting is that you gamble nothing will go wrong. Plus you lose your instrument for a while. A minor concern is that it will no longer be stock.
I've been around long enough and have seen enough inadvertent damage done while trying to guild the lilly that I'm definitely gun shy.
As far as what the right decision is, you will only know whether you should have refretted when it's completed and it's okay. Personally, I'd wait another year unless the current frets are holding you back.
Yes, I know I'm eccentric. Someone has to have the opposite viewpoint. Just be sure you really want to poke the bear before you turn your guitar over for surgery.Last edited by Marty Grass; 12-28-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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MG raises an interesting point. I sold a Stratocaster that I had original frets on (a '68). I had worn down the frets and re-dressed them steadily over the nearly 50 years I'd played the guitar. I had no problem playing the guitar, but I knew that the next guy would want new frets. Still, I ended up getting more for the guitar because it was not re-fretted and had original frets.
If Joe thinks he may _ever_ want to resell he probably should keep the guitar original. OTOH, I suspect that Joe is going to be buried with this JS.
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GT thank you brother. I also learned Memories of You which has some fast lines but I wanted to show off the sound of this guitar, rather than my ability to peal off fast lines. This guitar is like a piano. It will always be the star of my show. Thanks again and as always the pleasure is all mine. Originally Posted by Greentone
MG, Good points. I've seen close ups of Johnny's Gibsons and they don't have these frets. No way. It's very hard for my little hands to hold stretch chords for very long. If this guitar felt a little more like an L5 it would be perfect. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
The luthier I am using put me on the schedule 5 weeks prior and will call me 2 days before. So I will be without it for less than a week.
Will I be shitting bricks for a week? Yes.
I think I would play the guitar more often with new frets.
This guitar is very special to me and it's not going anywhere. Unlike the Excel, I'm not afraid to play it. I just want to play it more. I play my 175 all the time. New frets will make me stop wanting an L4. We'll, maybe for a couple of hours.. Originally Posted by Greentone
Guys you are all amazing. This would be 1/2 the fun if I didn't have you guys to share it with.
Thanks again. Joe D
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