Manzer Archtops

[Hogtown Fatty]

Anyone have some real world experience with Manzer Archtops? I'm talking over slightly prolonged periods of time, not just 10 seconds at a guitar show. I'm specifically interested in her laminate Blue Note model (as played by Julian Lage). A used one has been made available to me at (what I think is) a decent price, but I'd like to get some more feedback on them before taking the leap. The guitar is on another continent so playing it first isn't really possible.

[Hammertone]

Linda is in the Toronto area. You should reach out to her directly - she's a very lovely person as well as an excellent guitar builder. She may have one for you to try out. Toronto-based jazz guitar player Roy Patterson has played a Manzer Blue Note for years - he may still have it, or might know its current owner.

As well, owners of Manzer guitars have been known to contact her about re-selling Manzer guitars - she had a spectacularly good 17" acoustic archtop on display at the Woodstock Invitational guitar show a few weeks ago, that she is selling on behalf of its owner.

[Jim Soloway]

My only suggestion would be to make absolutely certain that you'll be comfortable with a 25.25" scale length and a 1 3/4" nut width. That's not a really common setup. I personally found the tone to be a bit bright in the Julian Lage video on her site, but that may be a function of his taste.

[Hammertone]

I'll help him out with that - I have several archtops with 25 1/4" scale and 1 3/4" nut width.

[Hogtown Fatty]

How does the 1 3/4 feel in the hand compared to a typical Gibson style 1 11/16?

My only suggestion would be to make absolutely certain that you'll be comfortable with a 25.25" scale length and a 1 3/4" nut width. That's not a really common setup. I personally found the tone to be a bit bright in the Julian Lage video on her site, but that may be a function of his taste.

[Max405]

Perfect. As long as the neck doesn't maintain thick shoulders and tapers down to a nice C, it is guitar playing neck euphoria.
Just my opinion.
JD

[DRS]

Beautiful guitars from all accounts. never played one. She has opened her list again so you can order one from her.

[Jabberwocky]

I wrote to Linda Manzer in 2008. Her archtops started from $10000 and it was the laminated Blue Note. She was a really nice sweet lady.

In 2013, according to a post on TGP, a Blue Note had a price of $18 000. I guess in 2016, it has since increased to $21 000.

Linda Manzer is a superlative guitarmaker. I guess if you have the jones and the coin for it you will get a very nice guitar, new or used.

But for pragmatic reasons, I don't see it as very good value as a functional guitar. Certainly, in the world of laminated archtops, I can name Steve Andersen, Bryant Trenier, Roger Borys and Ned Whittemore who build lams for the lemmings. Sorry, bad pun. There are also the workshop-made 16" Roger Sadowsky Jim Hall and Bill Collings 16" Eastside LC and 15" Eastside Jazz LC, and Bob Benedetto Bambino Deluxe.

I have not played the Manzer Blue Note and for all I know, it may be the bee's knees, the cat's meow or the dog's bollocks. But a laminate is a laminate is a laminate unless it is Nomex-cored whereupon it becomes a Double-top...

A Manzer archtop is a justification unto itself. It requires no other. However, if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop and money is kind of a concern, note that there are other ones out there which are made in small enough numbers to be considered handmade.

Steve Andersen made one particularly sweet double-top 16" archtop. If you talk to Steve you may convince him to make another. Bryant Trenier made four of a particularly nice laminated 16" archtop. You can find them played on Youtube. They are all quite a way under $10 000 each, new.

If you want a Manzer laminated archtop guitar, get a Manzer laminated archtop guitar. But if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop guitar and not break the bank at the same time, there are a few others you could countenance.

And if you do not have a chance to play it before putting your money down I would think seriously about it unless it were selling for $4000. It is not a guitar to get another person's opinion on. No guitar is but for that kind of money (it must be at least $10 000 used, I guess) you have to be doubly sure. Linda Manzer is a big name for her work with Pat Metheny but I know that there are archtop players who would consider another archtop maker before Manzer.

In other words, there may not be a secondary market for it. Most of us here consider $5000 a king's ransom for a used archtop guitar, carved or laminated or hybrid. In my trumppence worth of useless opinion, a Manzer Blue Note used is just not that special for anyone to rob the bank.

PS Why did I write to Linda Manzer then? I was a Pat Metheny fan and it was for bragging rights.

[rlrhett]

I have not played the Manzer Blue Note and for all I know, it may be the bee's knees, the cat's meow or the dog's bollocks.

God I hope it isn't the "dog's bullocks"! That doesn't sound like something I want to play at all

[Jabberwocky]

God I hope it isn't the "dog's bullocks"! That doesn't sound like something I want to play at all

Bollocks, my dear rhett, bollocks! Bullock's bollocks are quite something else. She'd better not be carrying any. I am not that open-minded. The dog's danglies.

[rlrhett]

Still not something I want to touch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hogtown Fatty]

That's a pretty substantial price hike, $8-21k within a decade. I was offered a used Blue Note for $13k and thought that if I went for it I'd try to get it down more in price. But so why does Linda have the name that people are willing to pay the big bucks for and not the others you've mentioned? Gotta' be something to it besides the Metheny connection- Pat doesn't even play her archtops.

I wrote to Linda Manzer in 2008. Her archtops started from $10000 and it was the laminated Blue Note. She was a really nice sweet lady.

In 2013, according to a post on TGP, a Blue Note had a price of $18 000. I guess in 2016, it has since increased to $21 000.

Linda Manzer is a superlative guitarmaker. I guess if you have the jones and the coin for it you will get a very nice guitar, new or used.

But for pragmatic reasons, I don't see it as very good value as a functional guitar. Certainly, in the world of laminated archtops, I can name Steve Andersen, Bryant Trenier, Roger Borys and Ned Whittemore who build lams for the lemmings. Sorry, bad pun. There are also the workshop-made 16" Roger Sadowsky Jim Hall and Bill Collings 16" Eastside LC and 15" Eastside Jazz LC, and Bob Benedetto Bambino Deluxe.

I have not played the Manzer Blue Note and for all I know, it may be the bee's knees, the cat's meow or the dog's bollocks. But a laminate is a laminate is a laminate unless it is Nomex-cored whereupon it becomes a Double-top...

A Manzer archtop is a justification unto itself. It requires no other. However, if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop and money is kind of a concern, note that there are other ones out there which are made in small enough numbers to be considered handmade.

Steve Andersen made one particularly sweet double-top 16" archtop. If you talk to Steve you may convince him to make another. Bryant Trenier made four of a particularly nice laminated 16" archtop. You can find them played on Youtube. They are all quite a way under $10 000 each, new.

If you want a Manzer laminated archtop guitar, get a Manzer laminated archtop guitar. But if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop guitar and not break the bank at the same time, there are a few others you could countenance.

And if you do not have a chance to play it before putting your money down I would think seriously about it unless it were selling for $4000. It is not a guitar to get another person's opinion on. No guitar is but for that kind of money (it must be at least $10 000 used, I guess) you have to be doubly sure. Linda Manzer is a big name for her work with Pat Metheny but I know that there are archtop players who would consider another archtop maker before Manzer.

In other words, there may not be a secondary market for it. Most of us here consider $5000 a king's ransom for a used archtop guitar, carved or laminated or hybrid. In my trumppence worth of useless opinion, a Manzer Blue Note used is just not that special for anyone to rob the bank.

PS Why did I write to Linda Manzer then? I was a Pat Metheny fan and it was for bragging rights.

[Hammertone]

...But so why does Linda have the name that people are willing to pay the big bucks for and not the others you've mentioned? Gotta' be something to it besides the Metheny connection- Pat doesn't even play her archtops.

Linda had the opportunity to spend some time with Jimmy D'Aquisto learning how to make acoustic archtop guitars. I think this contributes significantly to her archtop guitar brand halo.

[iim7V7IM7]

I spoke with Linda at Woodstock about a month ago. Her carved top archtops start at $25,000 and her delivery time was only about 1-year.

[rlrhett]

I know this is heresy, but I can't begin to imagine why anyone would pay $12,000 for a new factory Gibson. To me that is like paying $100,000 for a limited edition Chevy Camaro. People will pay $40,000 for a Pagelli Massari or a Ken Parker archtop. Why? The "moon spruce"? The "neck tube attachment"?

Guitars are either functional (play a dozen Ibanez or Epiphones and find one decent one to use) or they are symbolic. You buy it because of what you think it means to you (Eg. "I'm rich", "I deserve it", "I appreciate the finer things", "it makes me feel special to play it", etc.)

Good for Linda Manzer. I hope someone pays me $25,000 for one of mine some day. It isn't about some objective standard of playability or beauty. If paying $25,000 for a Manzer makes no sense to you, you probably aren't who she's making them for.

[kid335]

I wrote to Linda Manzer in 2008. Her archtops started from $10000 and it was the laminated Blue Note. She was a really nice sweet lady.

In 2013, according to a post on TGP, a Blue Note had a price of $18 000. I guess in 2016, it has since increased to $21 000.

Linda Manzer is a superlative guitarmaker. I guess if you have the jones and the coin for it you will get a very nice guitar, new or used.

But for pragmatic reasons, I don't see it as very good value as a functional guitar. Certainly, in the world of laminated archtops, I can name Steve Andersen, Bryant Trenier, Roger Borys and Ned Whittemore who build lams for the lemmings. Sorry, bad pun. There are also the workshop-made 16" Roger Sadowsky Jim Hall and Bill Collings 16" Eastside LC and 15" Eastside Jazz LC, and Bob Benedetto Bambino Deluxe.

I have not played the Manzer Blue Note and for all I know, it may be the bee's knees, the cat's meow or the dog's bollocks. But a laminate is a laminate is a laminate unless it is Nomex-cored whereupon it becomes a Double-top...

A Manzer archtop is a justification unto itself. It requires no other. However, if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop and money is kind of a concern, note that there are other ones out there which are made in small enough numbers to be considered handmade.

Steve Andersen made one particularly sweet double-top 16" archtop. If you talk to Steve you may convince him to make another. Bryant Trenier made four of a particularly nice laminated 16" archtop. You can find them played on Youtube. They are all quite a way under $10 000 each, new.

If you want a Manzer laminated archtop guitar, get a Manzer laminated archtop guitar. But if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop guitar and not break the bank at the same time, there are a few others you could countenance.

And if you do not have a chance to play it before putting your money down I would think seriously about it unless it were selling for $4000. It is not a guitar to get another person's opinion on. No guitar is but for that kind of money (it must be at least $10 000 used, I guess) you have to be doubly sure. Linda Manzer is a big name for her work with Pat Metheny but I know that there are archtop players who would consider another archtop maker before Manzer.

In other words, there may not be a secondary market for it. Most of us here consider $5000 a king's ransom for a used archtop guitar, carved or laminated or hybrid. In my trumppence worth of useless opinion, a Manzer Blue Note used is just not that special for anyone to rob the bank.

PS Why did I write to Linda Manzer then? I was a Pat Metheny fan and it was for bragging rights.

What Jabbs said!

[Hammertone]

I spoke with Linda at Woodstock about a month ago. Her carved top archtops start at $25,000 and her delivery time was only about 1-year.

As well, she had a particularly fabulous acoustic archtop with her at the Woodstock show, for sale, pre-owned by a collector who was asking $20,000 for it. Best acoustic Manzer I've ever played, just a wonderful instrument.

[QAman]

Having owned and been exposed to many of the higher end Archtops for nearly 40 years , the dollars spent rarely equate to what one might expect - yet we try to convince ourselves otherwise.

I had a D'Aquisto Centura once that did not compare to my 1991 Excel, or earlier D'Aquisto's yet I tried convincing myself the sound must be spectacular , because it was made by Jimmy ( who was a good friend) but it wasn't.

Dollars spent is not proportional to increased tonal satisfaction - unless it's satisfying something other than what the guitar can offer ( status) there is a limit .

Very wealthy people have a propensity to separate themselves by buying what most
of us cannot afford - case in point Monteleone's - another good friend and an incredible builder of the highest order. I do wish I kept a few that I owned, but no regrets.

From my experience there are many great builders providing phenomenal tonal characteristics and near perfect aesthetics
for far less than 25k. Jabs has pointed them out . For my money , the Treniers are one of the finest tonally and closest to a D'Aquisto that I have ever heard - no doubt. In fact , my Trenier Broadway is just breathtaking and unbelievably responsive with a fat rich D'Angelico sound , but with Jimmy's endless sustain - Orchestra guitar meets modern fingerstyle - just perfection and less than half the price of what we are taking about in this post.

Just my opinion - no disrespect to Linda Manzer customers - she builds a fine guitar.

[sgcim]

I wrote to Linda Manzer in 2008. Her archtops started from $10000 and it was the laminated Blue Note. She was a really nice sweet lady.

In 2013, according to a post on TGP, a Blue Note had a price of $18 000. I guess in 2016, it has since increased to $21 000.

Linda Manzer is a superlative guitarmaker. I guess if you have the jones and the coin for it you will get a very nice guitar, new or used.

But for pragmatic reasons, I don't see it as very good value as a functional guitar. Certainly, in the world of laminated archtops, I can name Steve Andersen, Bryant Trenier, Roger Borys and Ned Whittemore who build lams for the lemmings. Sorry, bad pun. There are also the workshop-made 16" Roger Sadowsky Jim Hall and Bill Collings 16" Eastside LC and 15" Eastside Jazz LC, and Bob Benedetto Bambino Deluxe.

I have not played the Manzer Blue Note and for all I know, it may be the bee's knees, the cat's meow or the dog's bollocks. But a laminate is a laminate is a laminate unless it is Nomex-cored whereupon it becomes a Double-top...

A Manzer archtop is a justification unto itself. It requires no other. However, if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop and money is kind of a concern, note that there are other ones out there which are made in small enough numbers to be considered handmade.

Steve Andersen made one particularly sweet double-top 16" archtop. If you talk to Steve you may convince him to make another. Bryant Trenier made four of a particularly nice laminated 16" archtop. You can find them played on Youtube. They are all quite a way under $10 000 each, new.

If you want a Manzer laminated archtop guitar, get a Manzer laminated archtop guitar. But if you are looking for a superlative laminated archtop guitar and not break the bank at the same time, there are a few others you could countenance.

And if you do not have a chance to play it before putting your money down I would think seriously about it unless it were selling for $4000. It is not a guitar to get another person's opinion on. No guitar is but for that kind of money (it must be at least $10 000 used, I guess) you have to be doubly sure. Linda Manzer is a big name for her work with Pat Metheny but I know that there are archtop players who would consider another archtop maker before Manzer.

In other words, there may not be a secondary market for it. Most of us here consider $5000 a king's ransom for a used archtop guitar, carved or laminated or hybrid. In my trumppence worth of useless opinion, a Manzer Blue Note used is just not that special for anyone to rob the bank.

PS Why did I write to Linda Manzer then? I was a Pat Metheny fan and it was for bragging rights.

I read somewhere that Roger Borys made laminate tops for Manzer's laminate guitars, as he did for Jim Hall's D'Aquisto.

[lismer]

I have known Linda for a long time and am very familiar with her guitars, including her Blue Note model. As far as advice goes, if you have 'played the field' of laminate guitars in your hometown and this is the one that is ringing all your bells, get practical about it. Can you afford it? Are you spending your children's college education? Everyone has a point of view and a field of reference but you know yourself best. I would say given Linda's new price list that the amount being asked is in line with them and if you have done your due diligence, go with your gut, whatever it is telling you. There are are loads of guitars out there, many in Toronto and we have some of the best luthiers on the planet here! Good luck.

[Nighthawks]

Having owned and been exposed to many of the higher end Archtops for nearly 40 years , the dollars spent rarely equate to what one might expect - yet we try to convince ourselves otherwise.

I had a D'Aquisto Centura once that did not compare to my 1991 Excel, or earlier D'Aquisto's yet I tried convincing myself the sound must be spectacular , because it was made by Jimmy ( who was a good friend) but it wasn't.

Dollars spent is not proportional to increased tonal satisfaction - unless it's satisfying something other than what the guitar can offer ( status) there is a limit .

Very wealthy people have a propensity to separate themselves by buying what most
of us cannot afford - case in point Monteleone's - another good friend and an incredible builder of the highest order. I do wish I kept a few that I owned, but no regrets.

From my experience there are many great builders providing phenomenal tonal characteristics and near perfect aesthetics
for far less than 25k. Jabs has pointed them out . For my money , the Treniers are one of the finest tonally and closest to a D'Aquisto that I have ever heard - no doubt. In fact , my Trenier Broadway is just breathtaking and unbelievably responsive with a fat rich D'Angelico sound , but with Jimmy's endless sustain - Orchestra guitar meets modern fingerstyle - just perfection and less than half the price of what we are taking about in this post.

Just my opinion - no disrespect to Linda Manzer customers - she builds a fine guitar.

I have two Treniers, an Excel and a Rosine. Bryant made the Rosine for me around 6 years ago for 10k.
but I became acquainted with his guitars after buying the Excel years before from John Stewart. With Manzer you are going to be paying for her notoriety and famous relationship that she has had with Pat Metheny during her professional lifetime. A laminate would never compare to a carved archtop and Bryant Trenier guitars are outstanding and undervalued in the market. They are incredible values for those real players who have only playing a great guitar as a goal.

[Hammertone]

High-priced laminated archtops are a cash grab, regardless of who builds them - Manzer, Trenier, Borys, Benedetto, Unger, etceteras. But, don't get me wrong - if guitar builders can get away with selling laminated archtops for big bucks, good for them - building guitars for a living is a tough gig, and those who can command high prices for their guitars deserve it, IMO.

...With Manzer you are going to be paying for her notoriety and famous relationship that she has had with Pat Metheny during her professional lifetime.

That's only half the story - her reputation as an archtop builder is also based on her time spent working with Jimmy D'Aquisto. Brand halo enhancement juju at its finest.

...A laminate would never compare to a carved archtop and Bryant Trenier guitars are outstanding and undervalued in the market. They are incredible values for those real players who have only playing a great guitar as a goal.

His laminate archtops are no different from those of Manzer or anyone else whose pricing is based on a reputation for building excellent carved archtop guitars.

[QAman]

If you really want a Manzer - Larry Wexer has this one for sale at 12k - it’s not a laminate , but a much better value in my opinion.

1998 Manzer Absynthe Blue > Guitars Archtop Electric & Acoustic | Laurence Wexer Ltd.

[Stringswinger]

Laminate guitars are pretty useful in the real world of gigging. But high dollar guitars are not. Those of us who play jazz guitar in restaurants, bars and private events (weddings, corporate parties, private homes) do not want to put super high dollar guitars at risk. A Manzer laminate guitar sure doesn't seem "useful" from a gigging guitarist's perspective (mine). But "bragging rights" is of no importance to me.

There is a "silk stocking" trade for everything. IMO, QAman provides sage advice when he talks of exit strategy on archtop guitars. At some point either we or our heirs might need to or want to sell these guitars. Why buy one that will result in a huge loss when comparable instruments, that will sound/play as good are available that will retain value better? I suspect that my Gibson archtops and vintage D'Angelicos will retain value better than nosebleed high priced boutique archtops and cheap Asian made archtops alike. And they play and sound great.

Am I missing something here?

[iim7V7IM7]

On the first subject you are spot on regarding laminate guitars and gigging. A variety of laminate guitars are ideal for those situations.

Regarding carved instruments your logic is also compelling, assuming that you view instruments as investments. What you are missing is probably two things:

1) not everyone requires an exit strategy and
2) not everyone agrees that vintage D’Angelicos and Gibsons play or sound the best.

I personally do not, but I certainly understand those who have this opinion. This opinion is not unique to archtops, but is strong in all areas of guitar including classical, gypsy and steel string flat tops (e.g. vintage guitars are best). Having associations with great players of the past is also motivating and compelling.

I personally believe that lutherie continues to evolve and improve building upon the success of those who came before them. I believe that the best guitars ever made have not been made yet...

Laminate guitars are pretty useful in the real world of gigging. But high dollar guitars are not. Those of us who play jazz guitar in restaurants, bars and private events (weddings, corporate parties, private homes) do not want to put super high dollar guitars at risk. A Manzer laminate guitar sure doesn't seem "useful" from a gigging guitarist's perspective (mine). But "bragging rights" is of no importance to me.

There is a "silk stocking" trade for everything. IMO, QAman provides sage advice when he talks of exit strategy on archtop guitars. At some point either we or our heirs might need to or want to sell these guitars. Why buy one that will result in a huge loss when comparable instruments, that will sound/play as good are available that will retain value better? I suspect that my Gibson archtops and vintage D'Angelicos will retain value better than nosebleed high priced boutique archtops and cheap Asian made archtops alike. And they play and sound great.

Am I missing something here?