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Right, and if you pay her $25K you are EXACTLY who she's making them for.
Originally Posted by rlrhett
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12-23-2018 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hogtown Fatty
Perfect I'm guessing. That's my dream spec, but I'm done with custom guitars so will never get it. It's really just the Johnny Smith spec that is so popular these days, but just a tad longer. It should be more sparkly than a JS tonally speaking. (more overtones)
I play Gibsons with 25.50" scale and 1 11/16" nut width and can say that having longer fingers means that some chords are just too "bunchy" even in the fifth position. The left hand really has to go into some difficult contortions. That's where the wider nut width can help. And the 25.25" while shorter than the "standard" L5 scale, is not so short that it adds to the problem, and it makes it easier to finger some stretchy things down low. Win-Win.
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Good points. For me, Gibsons and DA's do the trick and their association with my guitar heroes is indeed of some significance. Furthermore, to some extent I DO view guitars as investments, unlike cars, which I see as a disposable, depreciating utility object. I have thirteen guitars, but only one car. (I do however choose to drive a fairly nice car, but not super high end and I bought it used. In both guitars and cars, I want quality, but am also concerned with thrift). Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
On the first subject you are spot on regarding laminate guitars and gigging. A variety of laminate guitars are ideal for those situations.
Regarding carved instruments your logic is also compelling, assuming that you view instruments as investments. What you are missing is probably two things:
1) not everyone requires an exit strategy and
2) not everyone agrees that vintage D’Angelicos and Gibsons play or sound the best.
I personally do not, but I certainly understand those who have this opinion. This opinion is not unique to archtops, but is strong in all areas of guitar including classical, gypsy and steel string flat tops (e.g. vintage guitars are best). Having associations with great players of the past is also motivating and compelling.
I personally believe that lutherie continues to evolve and improve building upon the success of those who came before them. I believe that the best guitars ever made have not been made yet...
I suppose that it is good that folks like you follow a different drummer than I do regarding guitars as it helps advance the art of lutherie. Kudos to the Linda Manzer's of this world who do well financially with their endeavors and also to those who can afford to buy their wares. In my world view, capitalism and the profit motive, while at times disastrous for humanity and the planet, have provided many wonderful things, including exceptional guitars.
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I suspect that a lot of archtop luthiers- even well known ones- sell fewer than ten instruments a year because the market is limited and supply might exceed demand. It's probably not a lot more limited market selling them at $20k than at $5k, but the higher dollar figure goes farther towards paying the bills. Is any archtop luthier actually doing "well" financially?
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Your suspicion is correct. It is in general difficult times for the majority of archtop luthiers. Basically, there is more competition and less demand. I can think of only a small number of luthiers of any kind that are financially well off. For the most part, their path is a passion but they typically have partners/spouses with “day jobs” or in some cases “day jobs” of there own.
Supply:
1) The advent of CNC, shared info. has created affordable factory guitars made in the Far East (-)
2) There are more solo archtop luthiers today than ever (-)
3) The advent of CNC has improved shop efficiency (+)
Demand:
1) Bricks and mortar guitar shops as a supplemental business source are going away (-)
2) Baby boomer hobbyists are diminishing in numbers as they age into retirement (-)
3) Jazz has continued to erode into a niche creating fewer younger players (-)
4) The internet has opened up the market for clients from afar (+)
In response to these market dynamics, some archtop luthiers have diversified into flat tops and or nylon strings. Some have created laminate factory guitars as a supplemental approach. Others subcontract operations for other builders (e.g. rough carve tops, backs, tail pieces, bridges and necks). Lastly, many of the best archtop luthiers are in their 50s and 60’s and wont be producing as many instruments forever to boot.
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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The money in luthier work is all in repairs. Unless you are well know it is difficult to make money on an archtop guitar. The hours of work required to build a guitar on the level of a Gibson L5 require that you get at least $6000 for the guitar more or less. You cannot make a guitar of that caliber and charge much less because in some sense the market sees you as a cheaper model...……….odd but true.
I would venture to guess that realistically you would need to sell that same guitar for above 8k$ to get the same return on a repair. I would even say closer to $10k.. Repair and setup are really bread and butter and if you are in a good market at least you can keep working and pay some bills. The issue even then will always be the benefits like health insurance and retirement when you work for yourself.
If I call the plumber out to the house then he charges about $60-$80 an hour plus materials. If you bring a guitar to me and I tell you I charge $70 an hour I bet I don't get any work......at all. I just made some pickguards and the stuff to make 2 pickguards for archtops is $25 a sheet. That is if you want the good stuff. I can make plain black one cheaper.
By the way if any members are needing pickguards I seem to be the pickguard making mode right now.Last edited by deacon Mark; 12-24-2018 at 11:44 AM.
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