Peerless Monarch Pickup Height

[Jackkroo]

Hi
I just got my monarch today and notice something that makes me worried.
The pickup height seems to be strange. On the treble string side, the gap between the pickup and the top is visible while there is no gap between the pickup and the top at all on the bass string side.

I'm not sure if it's visible in the photos. I tried to slide a piece of paper under it but it don't get through.
I called the guitar shop I bought it from and they say it's very common. It's a "floating" pickup but mine doesn't actually float so I'm really worried. They are the only peerless distributor in Thailand so I could more find any more information.
Hope any monarch owner here could kindly help me out.

Cheers
jack

[blackcat]

Unusual. Have you checked the relative height of the two screw positions on both sides of the end of the neck where the lugs are attached?

Should be easy to rectify.

[Matt Cushman]

It looks as if the neck is set at a slight angle with the bass side closer to the top than the treble side. You want the pickup to be fully clear of the top. From the photo it looks like there is very little clearance on the bass side. You want to have even clearance between each of the strings and the pickup and still be clear of the top. If you raise the bass side of the pickup to clear the top you may then have the pickup to close to the low E string. You may want to show it to the people you purchased her from.

[blackcat]

It looks as if the neck is set at a slight angle with the bass side closer to the top than the treble side. You want the pickup to be fully clear of the top. From the photo it looks like there is very little clearance on the bass side. You want to have even clearance between each of the strings and the pickup and still be clear of the top. If you raise the bass side of the pickup to clear the top you may then have the pickup to close to the low E string. You may want to show it to the people you purchased her from.

Agree with Matt Cushman given that it is surely under warranty if bought new. If it was a secondhand model the screw holes will tell the story of (no doubt) a previous owner 'adjusting' the height to his own requirements. Unlikely that it would leave the factory like that although there have been QA issues in the past. Is it possible to post photos of the screws on both sides where the lugs are attached to the end of the neck?

[lawson-stone]

I have a Peerless Monarch with the floater as well.

They use a pickup that is visible thicker than most floating pickups. It's also, IMO, a much better pickup than most floaters. It's punchy, warm and adjustment of the tone control sweeps a range of tones not found on a lot of floating pickups.

Mine does lightly touch the top of the guitar, which in some peoples' minds is a bad thing. But I have had no complaints about the sound.

Yours does look like it was mounted unevenly. It ought to be easy enough to correct by removing the pickup, filling the holes on the wrong side, re-drilling pilot holes in the correct spot and remounting the pickup.

If there is some larger defect in construction, that's a warranty matter, but I suspect it's a mis-mounted bracket.

If it were my guitar, I'd do that myself, but obviously not everyone is confident with a drill near an archtop.

[lawson-stone]

The reason I think the bracket is mis-mounted is the pickup seems mis-aligned with the end of the fingerboard as well, which suggests to me the bracket was mounted a little too high on one side.

As I said earlier, their floating pickup is thicker than most and it might actually touch the top slightly.

[Jackkroo]

Sorry about the first 2 photos. I didn't know they're up side down.


I removed the pickguard and here are the photos.

It's very obvious now that the pickup is mounted unevenly

They mounted the low e-string side far lower than the other side

I bought this guitar new from the only distributor in Thailand. It took 3 months for the guitar to arrive and the shop had order only 2 monarchs this time (one is mine now)

I had contacted the shop manager about the problem and he said it is common and acceptable. I assume that requesting to change the guitar would be very difficult. I'd seen the other monarch in the shop and it has some cosmetic flaw as well. That's why I chose this one instead.

From what I know, they rarely restock peerless guitars. Maybe once a year, maybe worse. Even the shop allow me to change the guitar, I have no idea when I will get the new one.

Should I keep this one and maybe re-drill the hole myself or should I ask them to change the guitar?

Thinking of drilling my own guitar make me beak out in a cold sweat but returning or changing products is rather time consuming and annoying as the after sales service in my country in most cases are rather poor.
Even the shop manager said it's "acceptable flaw" so I know what i can expect.

What a mess

[TH]

Get it off the top. I know some people say it doesnt bother them but from my experience, you could very well find that there'll be a note, when played a certain way will activate the top so that contact might impede the movement of the top. It could give you a rattle, a buzz, a note that sounds "off", a note that's muted or worse. It may come when the top changes at a certain time of year, or when you're in a certain part of the country.

The bottom line is, it wasn't meant to touch the top and the moment you may detect the effect of a something that was meant to be moving (top) and something that's fixed (relatively massive piece of metal and magnet) you will never think of your guitar the same way. It may not have bothered you before or you or any of your friends may not have noticed it, but you'll know it and that noise will grow increasingly in your mind.

That's sloppy mounting. Honestly, QC should have caught that. Which also brings the suspicious possibility that the clearance may have even changed from the time it left the factory. Either way, nobody intended it to touch, it can have effects and in a new guitar it's unacceptable and avoidable.

My two cents from someone who has lots of experience with floaters, guitar construction, production line QC and playing time.

David

[2bornot2bop]

Have the floater properly remounted by a qualified luthier. That's an easy fix for a luthier.

[Matt Cushman]

It looks like there is just enough space to raise the pickup off the top on the bass side. You should be able to file the bottom of one or both of the holes on the bass side of the metal mounting bracket. By expanding the holes on the metal bracket slightly, you should be able to get the pickup mounted a little higher and off the top on the bass side. This is less risky than altering the mounting holes on the guitar. It is more difficult to drill new holes in the fingerboard extender but that is the other way to fix this.

[2bornot2bop]

It looks like there is just enough space to raise the pickup off the top on the bass side. You should be able to file the bottom of one or both of the holes on the bass side of the metal mounting bracket. By expanding the holes on the metal bracket slightly, you should be able to get the pickup mounted a little higher and off the top on the bass side. This is less risky than altering the mounting holes on the guitar. It is more difficult to drill new holes in the fingerboard extender but that is the other way to fix this.

An easier fix would simply be to mount an upgraded pickup to the pickguard, and fill the holes. If this were my Monarch I'd opt for a pickup upgrade given that something must be done to rectify the issue with the stock pup anyway. Filling the holes is really a non issue.

[blackcat]

An easier fix would simply be to mount an upgraded pickup to the pickguard, and fill the holes. If this were my Monarch I'd opt for a pickup upgrade given that something must be done to rectify the issue with the stock pup anyway. Filling the holes is really a non issue.

Completely agree. Looking closely at the side view images however, I am beginning to think that the neck break angle ie the angle at which the neck joins the body may be incorrect, thus tipping the end of the fretboard towards the body and reducing the room for re-positioning the existing pickup vertically as it were. A thinner replacement pickup would work better in this situation but of course if the break angle of neck to body is incorrect it will still give rise to a higher than normal action.

I no longer work with Peerless here in France, but feel that all dealers should offer the Peerless Lifetime Warranty and be willing to offer reparation or an exchange.

[2bornot2bop]

If the guitar were a Loar, the first thing I'd be concerned about is the neck break angle. But since it's not, and it's a Peerless Monarch, and I know that photo angles can be misleading, I'd roll the dice that the guitar is not the issue, but instead a faulty pup install that's easily rectified. I'd not over think it, if I owned this guitar.

[Matt Cushman]

I prefer an archtop guitar to have very good clearance between the fingerboard extension and the top. The guitar here has the extension very nearly in contact with the top. One problem with such close proximity to the top is, if there is any forward rotation of the neck, the extender will be driven down into top. I see guitars like this and it is rarely a problem but it does bother me. I have always preferred to have as little contact as possible between the neck extension and the top, but I progress. As for adjusting the pickup on this guitar, I think expanding the holes in the bracket on the bass side using a small file would be a 15 minute task.

[lawson-stone]

Guys the pickup itself is significantly thicker than any floater I've ever seen. I have this same guitar in blonde and that is really a good pickup. The sound would not, imo, improve enough on a new pup to merit the cost and bother. A simple shift of the bracket to level the pup is likely all it needs.


-Lawson
"Behavior that's admired is the path to power among peoples everywhere."-Beowulf

[blackcat]

I handled Monarchs - many of them, into France for perhaps five years continuously. All excellent guitars and my own (hand picked by moi) is one of the best. However, some did have neck-break angle issues and the gap under the end of the fretboard overhang was never a constant. The pickup is deep and deeper than eg Bartolini or KA floaters thus limiting movement possibilities. It is true that removing four screws and plugging the holes and re-setting the pickup lugs is a five minute job, but if the neck angle is out, the pickup will remain close to if not touching the guitar's solid top.

[lammie200]

...and the gap under the end of the fretboard overhang was never a constant...

I only have my one Monarch to compare to the pics from the OP and mine has the set in HB, but I was going to mention that the fret board overhang gap looks much smaller on the OP's than on mine.

[2bornot2bop]

That's interesting that in over 5 years of owning and reading Peerless threads this is the first mention of any quality control issue with a Peerless guitar. In the US only Doc and GnJ carry the Peerless line. Perhaps they're screening out problem guitars and sending them back, but that isn't the case in other parts of the world? Never ever have I read anything less than glowing comments on even the Monarch, which within the Peerless lineup I consider a mid priced model.

[Gumtee]

On mine for reference...

[jazz.fred]

That's interesting that in over 5 years of owning and reading Peerless threads this is the first mention of any quality control issue with a Peerless guitar. Never ever have I read anything less than glowing comments on even the Monarch, which within the Peerless lineup I consider a mid priced model.

Having just finished an hour's practice with my Monarch 16, I felt the need to concur with 2b's observation. It is a very well crafted and beautiful instrument that plays "like butter" and performs at a level that is easily competitive with many more expensive instruments. It represents an outstanding value at $1400.

Addendum: It should be mentioned that the superb performance of my Monarch (and all of my guitars) is due in no small way to the professional expertise of my guitar tech who really does excellent work and makes all of my instruments play and sound like a million bucks.

[2bornot2bop]

I handled Monarchs - many of them, into France for perhaps five years continuously. All excellent guitars and my own (hand picked by moi) is one of the best. However, some did have neck-break angle issues and the gap under the end of the fretboard overhang was never a constant. The pickup is deep and deeper than eg Bartolini or KA floaters thus limiting movement possibilities. It is true that removing four screws and plugging the holes and re-setting the pickup lugs is a five minute job, but if the neck angle is out, the pickup will remain close to if not touching the guitar's solid top.

Agreed. But if the neck break angle is flawed, in the Loar guitar I experienced such a flaw the result was a bottomed out bridge saddle adjustment, and still the lowest string height was a Freddie Green style high action on the low E string. Can the OP measure the action and or photograph the bridge saddle? I'm curious to know

[2bornot2bop]

Having just finished an hour's practice with my Monarch 16, I felt the need to concur with 2b's observation. It is a very well crafted and beautiful instrument that plays "like butter" and performs at a level that is easily competitive with many more expensive instruments. It represents an outstanding value at $1400.

I've owned 3 Monarchs, 4 Cremona's and 1 Imperial. And it was the Monarchs that arrived with the absolute best setup and low action that played like butter. I remember thinking I wish all my guitar played as effortlessly as the Monarch's.

[TH]

I've owned 3 Monarchs, 4 Cremona's and 1 Imperial. And it was the Monarchs that arrived with the absolute best setup and low action that played like butter. I remember thinking I wish all my guitar played as effortlessly as the Monarch's.

Having worked for Hoshino (Ibanez), and received guitars from all the major factories at some point or another (Ibanez guitars use factories in the far east that also turn out instruments with headstock names of the other major brands), I know the range of instruments that passed my QC station, those that got passed, those that got seconded and those that got sent back.

The quantity these guitars are built in does mean there's a percentage that will be questionable. Some days I'd pass instruments that on other days I may have pulled off. An instrument I may have played well on inspection I'd have rejected because experience had taught me that when a top rises with seasonal change or neck shift, it may buzz 9 months down the road. That's why it's critical to have plenty of clearance and not have low clearance at the bridge from the start. I too would love to see the thread clearance on the bridge in a photo. Just curious.

I just got a Godin 5th Ave in for work. For over a year it was perfect. One change of strings to a higher gauge revealed several issues. The truss rod didn't have enough room to allow a proper neck adjustment, the wood had a twist so one side was beyond adjustment and then once the wood "remembered" the twist, it never went back to what it was. So the lesson here: There may be problems that don't manifest under some conditions. If there's a hint of something amiss, do a thorough diagnosis, not just to alleviate the apparent problem, but to check for hidden issues this points to.

These guitars look great in a showroom. And if QC at the factory or distribution centre was good, you can get the impression that they're all great. Truth is, a factory deals with lower standards of individual wood selection, joining and wood seasoning than a carefully built hand built. That's one of the hidden aspects of the cost differential. Luck is a greater factour.

The high end guitars still have lemons. But there are less of them and more chances for them to be caught along the way. But a problem is a problem. Check for neck alignment, join integrity, good high clearance geometry, telltale checkmarks in the finish at the neck and headstock join that may indicate a blunt trauma that occured in transit (Yes crates do get dropped, forklifts do make errors) and at the slightest suspicion, play it safe. Be the prick who says "I'd just like one without issues." You're going to be living with that guitar a lot longer than the inconvenience of the people who are paid to make sure you're happy.

Or you can live with it. That works for a lot of people too, apparently.

David

[Jackkroo]

Agreed. But if the neck break angle is flawed, in the Loar guitar I experienced such a flaw the result was a bottomed out bridge saddle adjustment, and still the lowest string height was a Freddie Green style high action on the low E string. Can the OP measure the action and or photograph the bridge saddle? I'm curious to know

Sorry for my late reply.
The action is not too high but I notice the bridge is nearly bottom out. The action is a bit lower than 2mm.

There are some neck overhang clearance.

[Jackkroo]

On mine for reference...

I removed the screws and tried to fit the pickup where I think it should be.

The pickup doesn't press on the top anymore but the clearance is far less you yours.