Peerless Monarch Pickup Height

**Gumtee** · 07-05-2016, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Jackkroo

I removed the screws and tried to fit the pickup where I think it should be.

The pickup doesn't press on the top anymore but the clearance is far less you yours.

My top seems to be "flatter". Hard to judge from the photo, the clearance between the pick-up and treble side strings might be a concern?

I have one of the earlier models with the lighter truss rod cover. Perhaps someone with a newer model could chip in.

**lammie200** · 07-05-2016, 02:10 AM

Jackroo,

Does your guitar have an internal block under the bridge that touches the guitar back?

**blackcat** · 07-05-2016, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by lammie200

Jackroo,

Does your guitar have an internal block under the bridge that touches the guitar back?

AKA soundpost. Necessary due to solid construction/top. This is a traditional/conventional method of support.

**blackcat** · 07-05-2016, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gumtee

My top seems to be "flatter". Hard to judge from the photo, the clearance between the pick-up and treble side strings might be a concern?

I have one of the earlier models with the lighter truss rod cover. Perhaps someone with a newer model could chip in.

From the photo that would appear to be the case. Also, the two pole pieces for the B and high E strings seem to be abnormally high given that the others are all flush. Might this be the next adjustment?

**blackcat** · 07-05-2016, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jackkroo

Sorry for my late reply.
The action is not too high but I notice the bridge is nearly bottom out. The action is a bit lower than 2mm.

There are some neck overhang clearance.

First of all, excellent photos clearly showing the situation. On several of the Monarchs that I imported here to France over several years the lugs on the floating pickups were not actually in alignement and that looks to be the case here. It is possible to ( very carefully ) bend them once the pickup is off the guitar so that they fit snugly under the cream fretboard binding thus ensuring a level scenario. In other words, the side view should be identical in both cases.

Good luck.

David

TH · 07-05-2016, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Jackkroo

Sorry for my late reply.
The action is not too high but I notice the bridge is nearly bottom out. The action is a bit lower than 2mm.

There are some neck overhang clearance.

This is a case of a guitar at the very edge of acceptability. I would have seconded it. Or rejected it. You can do better.
For all the reasons I've outlined previously.
I'm very picky about the acoustic sound and response of my guitars. The tiniest adjustments in breakover angle on a bridge saddle can effect the feel and sound profoundly. You're in Thailand? It's the start of the summer now, come deeper in the season the moisture may increase and the top will raise necessitating lowering the saddle height even further, or change of strings to a heavier gauge any time in the future (who knows how your playing style, sound preferences or hands will evolve) or if you want to sell it in the future, there is no room for adjustment in that bridge. Change in seasons alone to a different environment may likely drop/raise that top as the moisture changes; who knows if you'll have enough leeway. I don't know the neck relief either, that's not easy to photograph. But if you need to put any relief in the neck at any point, that'll raise your action and you'll need take it down at the bridge. You see, there's a lot of adjustment that's meant to be done with that handy adjustable bridge.

That pickup adjustment you made? You're getting into sacrificing playability and high fret access by moving that pickup off the top. Remember, the closer to the strings, the edgier your sound gets. A little distance, if you can assure it, makes for a warmer sound. Also play the guitar at the high frets. Yes, press that string to the high frets, you're getting really close to the pickup at that point. If your neck had a little more neck angle, you wouldn't be playing all these sound sacrificing games to try to get it to a point that's still, by some metrics, substandard.

Have other owners worked with similar conditions and lived with it? Sure, obviously from other forum members too. Have there been other owners who have found themselves stuck with a guitar at their limits they came to fight and with only very costly and half measures to address the issues? Yes. I make a lot of money off them and feel really bad at not having been there when they bought them.
David

**lawson-stone** · 07-05-2016, 10:00 AM

Here's my Monarch and its pickup. Looking at it, I can see the treble side does ride a little higher, and it's obvious why: the cable comes out of the bottom of the pickup and needs a little room to pass out from under the pickup. The pickup itself is rather thick (it's advertised as an "upgraded" pickup) and so there isn't much room under there to start with. Something like a Kent Armstrong floater would have plenty of room, but this pickup is a tight fit. Factor in the wire coming out underneath and it looks like mine is a bit askew. I never noticed this before now.

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-img_4742-jpg

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-img_4742-jpg

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-img_4744-jpg

**blackcat** · 07-05-2016, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Here's my Monarch and its pickup. Looking at it, I can see the treble side does ride a little higher, and it's obvious why: the cable comes out of the bottom of the pickup and needs a little room to pass out from under the pickup. The pickup itself is rather thick (it's advertised as an "upgraded" pickup) and so there isn't much room under there to start with. Something like a Kent Armstrong floater would have plenty of room, but this pickup is a tight fit. Factor in the wire coming out underneath and it looks like mine is a bit askew. I never noticed this before now.

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-img_4742-jpg

The whole point of the floater is to 'float'! Aaron Armstrong re-wound mine in the original housing to my own specs and he commented at the time that it was the deepest he had come across.
Too close for comfort methinks, especially with a vibrating solid top

**blackcat** · 07-05-2016, 11:50 AM

Doc Dosco may wish to comment on this given that he has distributed Peerless and therefore Monarchs longer than anyone I can think of? Or, not. I would not blame him!

**jazz.fred** · 07-05-2016, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by blackcat

Doc Dosco may wish to comment on this given that he has distributed Peerless and therefore Monarchs longer than anyone I can think of? Or, not. I would not blame him!

"Would not blame him" for what (and why)?

**lammie200** · 07-05-2016, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

...the moisture may increase and the top will raise necessitating lowering the saddle height even further...

That is why I asked if the OP's guitar has a sound post (which is more like a block in this particular guitar.) I suspect that it was removed and the top has lost strength and will continue to move around depending on the weather and string tension. If it doesn't have a sound post then I am wondering if the guitar can be fixed by putting one in and taking material off the bridge if necessary.

**blackcat** · 07-05-2016, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by jazz.fred

"Would not blame him" for what (and why)?

Would not blame him for not making any comment on a less than perfect Monarch. I would have thought 'why' would be obvious.

TH · 07-05-2016, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by lammie200

That is why I asked if the OP's guitar has a sound post (which is more like a block in this particular guitar.) I suspect that it was removed and the top has lost strength and will continue to move around depending on the weather and string tension. If it doesn't have a sound post then I am wondering if the guitar can be fixed by putting one in and taking material off the bridge if necessary.

On fully hollow body guitars, particularly ones designed on a fully acoustic model as this one is, the tops are built to be free floating,usually braced only by two parallel braces or two braced in an X pattern. Using a post that keeps the top from vibrating could be done but it's an extreme solution: stopping the top from vibrating to control it.

Yes you can take wood off the bottom of the saddle piece. If the owner "HAD" to have this guitar and wanted it made playable, that'd be one of the first steps.

No, you can assume the body has integrity. I really don't believe that'd be an issue. If the top were in any way collapsing, the downward force of the top would necessitate RAISING the bridge height, and it's the opposite situation here.
Picture the Golden Gate bridge. If the bedrock beneath the bridge pylons were compromised and the ground were sinking, you'd need to have RAISED the bridge to keep the road intact. Here, we're nearly bottomed out.
I'm concerned that the swelling of the top will mean there's no room to lower the bridge. A legitimate concern.
Either way, the problem would seem to be the neck/body join and geometry, all of which, if done correctly, would have made all of these problems moot. Absolutely moot.

As far as the internal bracing, blocks or soundposts are concerned, nobody builds that way-if you want to top to vibrate. This is not a violin where the constant input of energy from a bow allows a solid wood coupling between the top and back. Guitars get energy from an initial string release and the decay is a balancing act. That woody sound that makes a full hollow body sing like that is because mass and stiffness are balanced by design; designed by tradition to let the top vibrate freely. A sound post would tend to stop vibration.
Hollow bodies are designed to get their integrity through the wood, the arch and two braces.
The photos of the arching by the OP indicate that there's no problem there.

Just my opinion anyway.

David

**lammie200** · 07-05-2016, 01:14 PM

Someone with the floater model should respond, but my Monarch with the set in HB has a sound post. I would think that if the guitar was originally designed to have one and it was removed, the string tension could cause the bridge to be either high or low depending on geometry, top strength, etc. I suggest ascertaining if this model was to have a sound post and whether this particular example has been modified. If that is a dead end, then at least one would know from observation rather than speculation.

**Gumtee** · 07-05-2016, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by lammie200

Someone with the floater model should respond, but my Monarch with the set in HB has a sound post. I would think that if the guitar was originally designed to have one and it was removed, the string tension could cause the bridge to be either high or low depending on geometry, top strength, etc. I suggest ascertaining if this model was to have a sound post and whether this particular example has been modified. If that is a dead end, then at least one would know from observation rather than speculation.

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-image-jpg

Would that be the sound post? Pardon the quality, cannot get proper focus.

TH · 07-05-2016, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gumtee

Would that be the sound post? Pardon the quality, cannot get proper focus.

Wow! That's very unorthodox. Thanks for that picture!
Now I've GOT to check out these guitars. There are certain frequencies of vibration that definitely NEED for the top to be moving freely. That sound post may there to control feedback but at the price of certain frequencies.

That's a soundpost alright. From a luthier's perspective I can see why, but there are a whole lot of why nots.
VERY interesting! I take back my statement that "nobody does this."
Hey Peerless reps, what's this about?

David

**2bornot2bop** · 07-05-2016, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Here's my Monarch and its pickup. Looking at it, I can see the treble side does ride a little higher, and it's obvious why: the cable comes out of the bottom of the pickup and needs a little room to pass out from under the pickup. The pickup itself is rather thick (it's advertised as an "upgraded" pickup) and so there isn't much room under there to start with. Something like a Kent Armstrong floater would have plenty of room, but this pickup is a tight fit. Factor in the wire coming out underneath and it looks like mine is a bit askew. I never noticed this before now.

Which is why I suggested doing a pickup swap rather than fiddling with the stock pup. I find a world of difference in floating pups, especially so over stock Asian offerings, even on the same guitar.

A Barolini 5J on my first Loar LH650 made that guitar sing better than a common guitar mentioned here by name that some go gaga over the guitar in name only...I sold that guitar and kept the Loar. It's all about the sound. A name produces nothing.

**blackcat** · 07-06-2016, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

Which is why I suggested doing a pickup swap rather than fiddling with the stock pup. I find a world of difference in floating pups, especially so over stock Asian offerings, even on the same guitar.

A Barolini 5J on my first Loar LH650 made that guitar sing better than a common guitar mentioned here by name that some go gaga over the guitar in name only...I sold that guitar and kept the Loar. It's all about the sound. A name produces nothing.

In fact, the catalogue description of those pickups has always led to confusion: -

'One innovative Floating pickup increases output to 90% of an Epiphone '57 full size humbucker'.

This description has caused many to believe that the pickup is made by Epiphone when in fact it is a secondary Korean manufacturer retained by Peerless. Doc Dosco commented on this in a post on 11-02-2015.......................

'It is one of the better quality Gibson/Epiphone styled humbuckers that are made in Korea. Remember, Peerless built the Epiphone archtops for many, many years. Consequently, this PU design has been in use a long time. One good thing is that they haven't gone to the inferior Chinese PUs like other brands have done just to get a cheaper price'.

They do, however stuff an awful lot of material into that small housing!

David

**lawson-stone** · 07-06-2016, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by blackcat

In fact, the catalogue description of those pickups has always led to confusion: -

'One innovative Floating pickup increases output to 90% of an Epiphone '57 full size humbucker'.

This description has caused many to believe that the pickup is made by Epiphone when in fact it is a secondary Korean manufacturer retained by Peerless. Doc Dosco commented on this in a post on 11-02-2015.......................

'It is one of the better quality Gibson/Epiphone styled humbuckers that are made in Korea. Remember, Peerless built the Epiphone archtops for many, many years. Consequently, this PU design has been in use a long time. One good thing is that they haven't gone to the inferior Chinese PUs like other brands have done just to get a cheaper price'.

They do, however stuff an awful lot of material into that small housing!

David

Here is the underside of my Monarch pickup. The markings are pretty much identical to what I've seen on any number of Korean-made archtops. I also noticed a similarity with certain Guild archtops with floaters. The other picture below puts the Monarch floater alongside the Kent Armstrong hand-wound Johnny Smith 12-pole floating pickup.

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-peerless-kajs12-jpg

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-peerless-kajs12-jpg

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-peerles_monarch-jpg

**blackcat** · 07-06-2016, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Here is the underside of my Monarch pickup. The markings are pretty much identical to what I've seen on any number of Korean-made archtops. I also noticed a similarity with certain Guild archtops with floaters. The other picture below puts the Monarch floater alongside the Kent Armstrong hand-wound Johnny Smith 12-pole floating pickup.

Peerless Monarch Pickup Height-peerless-kajs12-jpg

Exactly. Mind you, a bit beyond the call of duty to go and strip down your Monarch Lawson! Pity they never sought to create a small outlet groove for the cable as it leaves the housing thus keeping everything hunky dory size-wise.

Link to the Specs: http://guitarsnjazz.com/product/peerless-monarch/

David

**Jackkroo** · 07-06-2016, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by lammie200

Someone with the floater model should respond, but my Monarch with the set in HB has a sound post. I would think that if the guitar was originally designed to have one and it was removed, the string tension could cause the bridge to be either high or low depending on geometry, top strength, etc. I suggest ascertaining if this model was to have a sound post and whether this particular example has been modified. If that is a dead end, then at least one would know from observation rather than speculation.

There is a post on mine as well.