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This is quite an old video, but explains why more and more Gibson's are appearing with Richlite boards. It clearly isn't in Henry J's business model to hand over his hard earned dollars to Bob Taylor.
If you haven't already seen it, Bob tells a good tale....
For the record, the Godin in my Avatar has a Richlite board, whilst my Taylor 214 is ebony. I can't really tell the difference.Last edited by newsense; 04-27-2016 at 01:36 PM.
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04-27-2016 01:34 PM
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I'm tempted to try Richlite. It sounds like it could be more stable than wood, and it doesn't involve destroying the planet.
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One of my students has a Richlite boarded Martin.
You'd have to look VERY close to see it's not ebony, and it sure feels like ebony.
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Ive played both and I cant tell the difference either. Bob
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I have a LP Supreme and a Midtown Custom as well as several others with ebony and I cannot tell the difference... then again unless the fb has a glossy finish like Fenders do I can't tell the difference from rosewood or maple, or ebony either.
Funny many gits with ebony fb have HUGE fret markers... if I were THAT sensitive the difference between the ebony and marker it would drive me loopy.
Not only can I NOT feel a pea under my mattress I likely couldn't feel an anvil if it were there :-)
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I have a Martin nylon stringer and a Hagstrom HJ800 that both have synthetic finger boards. I think that they are great alternatives to ebony. They both hold their tunes very well and the feel is fine IMHO.
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One negative thing about ebony is that it is VERY susceptible to expansion/contraction during humidity fluctuation.
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Originally Posted by GNAPPI
I miss my Midtown Custom. One of the best guitars I ever had. And one of the best bargains too. Another one I should have kept..
JD
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I'm know far and wide as an ebony lover and rosewood hater ('dis-liker' would be a better term) and I have to admit it's mostly based on looks - I really can't tell much, if any, difference when I'm playing one or the other. The only artificial fretboard that I've played was one of those old 70's aluminum neck Kramers which had something resembling Richlite on it. Worked OK for me. Ebony or it's look-a-likes just seem to reflect more of a quality product to me; it says that they used the 'good stuff' on a better quality instrument. And that still seems the case with Gibson - back in the day, Les Paul Standards and 175's were lower priced instruments and had rosewood fingerboards while Les Paul Customs, Super 400s and L5s had ebony to denote a higher grade of instrument. And as much as I like Martin (my first guitar in 1960 was a '36 00-17), I won't own one with other than an ebony board - it's just a personal preference. As far as I'm concerned, I have no problem with the Richlite but would have a problem with it on L5s, etc. Thank goodness there's still enough maple to outfit Telecasters for the duration of my lifespan.
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I have two Martins - one with richlite and one with ebony. The fingerboards feel the same. To these no-longer-young-eyes, they look the same. The one with the ebony board sounds better, but it is a "1934" Golden Era D-18 with mahogany neck, back and sides and scalloped bracing. Not to mention a several kilobuck price differential, of which the ebony would be a factor, but a relatively small one. I love 'em both.
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It is unsustainable to market ebony. Gotta be Richlite. So, if you want ebony, buy used.
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I love feel and look of ebony, however richlite looks and feels to me very much the same. I'm not so keen on rosewood fingerboards-- both ebony and richlite feel (and look) nicer to me. As for tone difference between ebony and richlite, who knows? That's a tough one.
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I applaud Bob Taylor for what he said and did.
I have several ebony fingerboards (which I prefer to rosewood, less because of the color and more because of the way it feels) and a richlite fingerboard. It is tough to tell the difference between the ebony and richlite. My old Yamaha SA2200 has an ebony fingerboard with brown streaks in it. I don't mind that at all. My Ibanez FA-800 has a beautiful ebony fretboard which is entirely indistinguishable from richlite. My Mah FB is clearly grainy ebony, but the richlite fingerboard on my Gibson is so hard that it works wonderfully and feels great.
I wholeheartedly support use of richlite and grainy/colored ebony.
What I hope is that Bob Taylor and others get into the business of planting ebony, and spruce. If you are going to use it, replace it. If they are going to cut down the trees and leave the stumps, make sure the area is planted for generations later.
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What a story!
I'm glad there are people like Bob Taylor who take the time to find out about these things in detail.
As a lover of all natural materials i will never be able to overcome my natural dislike for synthetic materials. Even if it's only the 35% of phenolic resin in richlite. But certainly i wouldn't mind a grainy/colored ebony fingerboard.
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The irony behind my original post is as follows:
My flat top guitar for the last couple of years has been a Martin 000X1AE, which many of you will know is Martin's lowest price guitar and also their "most sustainable", the back and sides being constructed from a non-wood laminate and the neck being constructed of plywood (for want of a better word). Of course the board is also phenolic aka Richlite. Whether Martin's true motive for this is cost or sustainability I'm not sure, perhaps a mixture, but in my case, as a materials scientist by trade, I was intrigued by the novel and creative use of the non-conventional materials. Tone-wise the results are impressive. OK at this price point you don't expect to get something extraordinary, but I feel the tone, compared to other guitars at this price point, more than validates the use of the substitute materials. Also it makes me feel good - in a "look, I'm saving the planet" kind of way.
However, after a couple of years, I find that I'm telling myself that I really deserve a "proper", all solid wood acoustic - oh, and that tax rebate has just arrived about the right time. I could justify this to myself as I have two homes and each one needs an acoustic guitar, of course. So I went to the local guitar place, with an eye on the Faith brand, which are British designed and built from sustainable woods in Indonesia. They are beautiful guitars, but to be fair to myself I decided to compare to a similarly priced Yamaha and one or two others. At some point, the assistant handed me a Taylor, saying have you tried one of these. I think he already knew what would happen. The tone of the Taylor, even the lowly 114, blew the others away, as far as I was concerned. I was so impressed, that after a week of consideration, I went back and bought a 214.
So what's the irony ? For a start, the Taylor isn't all solid wood, the back and sides are laminated rosewood, and secondly, having registered my purchase, Taylor sent me the video at the top of the thread in an e-mail headed "Happy Earth Day" ! What ? Are they taking the piss ? They made me realize the true frailty of my sustainability credentials.; how could I have bought one their evil, resource-plundering, ebony equipped boxes ?
I felt terrible.
I got over it 10 minutes later, when I picked up the guitar and started playing - lovely.
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I'm trying to see the altruistic angle but Bob Taylor owns the sawmills. You want ebony? You get it from one of my mills...
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Yes - he gets a little cocky about it towards the end of the video, which slightly spoils the story. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Just wonderin' -
This Taylor video was uploaded about 4 years ago. Why do we still see very few new guitars with grainy ebony boards with grey spots and streaks?
Gibson says, richlite is on par with ebony. Gibson guitars up to about $5k that used to have an ebony board, now have a richlite board. For the more expensive guitars like the high-end archtops or a few selected Les Pauls, they still use ebony. So if richlite really were on par with ebony, why not build a Citation with a richlite board?
Why do many guitars coming from the far east, some of them very inexpensive, have ebony boards? I'll just name Ibanez as an example.
Guitars with a richlite board may not sound and feel different as those with an ebony board. What about classical instruments that use much thicker ebony boards? Violins, Cellos, etc. And, most of all, what about an upright bass? Can you imagine an upright bass with a richlite board? If those were produced on a larger scale it would finally convince me that richlite really is on par with ebony.
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Drifter, good points.
I suspect that imports still having ebony have to do with trade agreements, and our justice dept being in a better position to make examples of domestic users of ebony.
If ebony importation is ever TOTALLY banned (it happened with ivory) then expect every git made to use richlite, rosewood, maple or other wood instead, and prices on ebony gits to skyrocket
At that point I will happily take financial advantage of every buyer that has an ebony bias and sell my ebony adorned gits, replace them with richlite models and take one or more European vacation(s).
I have never given a concern on fb material, if the git plays and sounds right that is all I can ask for.
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I would like to point out the fact that you can buy an ebony fingerboard for as little as $16.00 and the better ones are around $20.00 to $30.00. They do seem to be more costly than they once were but what isn't.
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Here's an honest description of an ebony board from a US-based luthier supplier:
"This fretboard is made from Gabon Ebony. It’s the real deal, although the totally black Ebony we used to get is probably a thing of the past. Usually there are faint streaks of gray or brown, which I like to leave alone since they add to character. Others may want to stain them out, which is easily done with dyes sold by both Stewmac and LMI. (Actually, these are nothing more or less than Fiebling's Black Leather dye which can be bought many places for about half of what the luthier suppliers charge. So if you want to go that route…) There’s nothing quite so classy as real Ebony. And it’s a great wood to work as well. You can leave it matte or, with something like Micro Mesh you can put a mirror-like polish on it. Either way it’s gorgeous. But expensive. Sorry."
Explains why you still see "solid black" ebony on new guitars.
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I understand that persimmon wood is a good substitute (in the same genus as ebony) for ebony. It's only black in the center but the rest of the wood is a golden color.
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Streaky ebony can look cool, too. Here's a pic from the gear page.
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I can tell the difference in feel and look but I'm not saying I'm against it. It seems to be prey close to ebony and wont have some of the issues that come with ebony but it does feel a little ruffer than ebony and it looks more hazy black than deep black.
In regards to sound etc.. If I sound good, I'm happy, couldn't care what it is.
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Originally Posted by newsense
I guess it's like this. You want a super 400 but you cant find a nice one, there is an alternative which is better than the ones you played and cheaper by far. You still hold out for a Super400 you just wait longer to find a nice one.
We are not in the business of just playing the damn things!
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