Ebony vs Richlite Fretboards

**Gilpy** · 04-28-2016, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Woody Sound

One negative thing about ebony is that it is VERY susceptible to expansion/contraction during humidity fluctuation.

I have noticed that ebony does seem to shrink more. My ebony fretboard guitars have all needed to have their fret ends trimmed. I wonder if a synthetic fretboard would be more stable? (yes, I do try to keep my guitars humidified, but here in the AZ desert, that's not always possible)

**newsense** · 04-28-2016, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

I guess it's like this. You want a super 400 but you cant find a nice one, there is an alternative which is better than the ones you played and cheaper by far. You still hold out for a Super400 you just wait longer to find a nice one.

Exactly ! I'm now feeling guilty because I'm gassing after the rosewood bodied Ibanez AF95 in my local PMT store. Why iam I feeling guilty ? All that rosewood ?

No - I'm feeling guilty because it is about 2/3 the price of the Eastman I sold a few weeks ago. Surely I must upgrade to a more expensive archtop; a cheaper one would suggest I have downgraded my status. Just like no one downgrades to a cheaper car unless fiscal circumstances really dictate that you must.

But in my head, I know (having previously owned an AF91), the AF95 will play just as well, if not better, than the Eastman.

And it will fill the gap until my Super 400 arrives.

**newsense** · 04-28-2016, 01:48 PM

Oh ! ... I just discovered I can tell the difference between Richlite and ebony. They taste different.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-28-2016, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by newsense

Oh ! ... I just discovered I can tell the difference between Richlite and ebony. They taste different.

Are you snorting saw dust or just licking the fretboard?

**Archie** · 04-28-2016, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by newsense

Oh ! ... I just discovered I can tell the difference between Richlite and ebony. They taste different.

Richlite is also lower in calories than full fat ebony.

**Jim Soloway** · 04-28-2016, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Drifter

Just wonderin' -

This Taylor video was uploaded about 4 years ago. Why do we still see very few new guitars with grainy ebony boards with grey spots and streaks?
.

Easy answer ... because most builders dye them black.

**Bluedawg** · 04-28-2016, 03:19 PM

I like the streaks in ebony ... I think there beautiful

**Cunamara** · 04-28-2016, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Drifter

Gibson says, richlite is on par with ebony. Gibson guitars up to about $5k that used to have an ebony board, now have a richlite board. For the more expensive guitars like the high-end archtops or a few selected Les Pauls, they still use ebony. So if richlite really were on par with ebony, why not build a Citation with a richlite board?

The Citation is frankly a luxury item. The material choices are not made for tonal considerations as much as for visual considerations. This is a conspicuous consumption product like a Rolex watch or a Meisterstuck fountain pen or most of the audiophile gear in the world. Anything other than their "best" materials is not going to rate with the target market. Even though, just like the Rolex and the Mont Blanc, there are many choices that perform as well or better for a fraction of the cost.

**Drifter** · 04-28-2016, 07:35 PM

I guess it's time to work on my prejudices once again.

**Matt Cushman** · 05-02-2016, 10:25 AM

Thanks for the link Woody Sound. I just ordered 2 of those fingerboard blanks. They will make great tailpieces as they are extra thick!

**jbucklin** · 05-02-2016, 11:28 AM

I have a Martin GPCPA1-Plus which I bought a couple of years ago. I was horrified when I learned that it might have the Richlite fretboard. Upon close inspection, however, I see some grain. Still not 100% sure though. This guitar replaced a Santa Cruz Model F, a guitar that I could never find the right pickup for. The Martin, however sounds so natural and acoustic with the Aura system! I'll try to forget about the ebony vs. Richlite thing.

**lammie200** · 05-02-2016, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

...I was horrified when I learned that it might have the Richlite fretboard. Upon close inspection, however, I see some grain. Still not 100% sure though...

The Richlite on my Martin is completely homogeneous looking. The Resinator fretboard on my Hagstrom looks more like wood. Hagstrom also uses the same material for the pickguard and bridge, both of which look more like wood than a composite to me. I do think that they weigh a lot less than an ebony equivalent though. I am happy with both guitars.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 05-02-2016, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by jbucklin

I have a Martin GPCPA1-Plus which I bought a couple of years ago. I was horrified when I learned that it might have the Richlite fretboard. Upon close inspection, however, I see some grain. Still not 100% sure though. This guitar replaced a Santa Cruz Model F, a guitar that I could never find the right pickup for. The Martin, however sounds so natural and acoustic with the Aura system! I'll try to forget about the ebony vs. Richlite thing.

Horrified is rather a strong word! If it had been Richlite, would it have been a M. Butterfly moment for you?

**jbucklin** · 05-02-2016, 01:24 PM

Well, I've had other Madame Butterfly moments, that's for sure. I think my horror stemmed from giving up my awesome Santa Cruz for the Martin, which I never bonded with---until a gig last week. I played a duo gig in a restaurant with another guitar player who was playing a Larivee that he had just installed a new pickup on. The place actually had a very decent sounding sound system so I was able to really hear our guitars. My Martin sounded way better than his Larivee! Then I remembered the frustration of trying to get the Santa Cruz to sound good amplified. Now I love my Martin---even if it is a Richlite board!

**PB+J** · 05-13-2016, 06:55 AM

I've made two solid bodies and an archtop with Richlite boards. I like the material a lot. It's everything you traditionally want in an ebony board--uniform color, extremely hard, smooth, durable. It takes and holds frets extremely well and machines and sands really well. There's no grain to tear out or fill, no knots. It's very stiff so it can add appreciably to the stiffness of a neck or it can be made very thin. It does not involve logging the rain forest. It looks very very very much like the Ebony board on my upright bass. I can't hear any obvious sonic signature, but as always it's hard to tell what aspects contribute to tone in what degree.

Some downsides:

it's not wood!!!! it's soul-crushing not-wood!!!
It can be hard on power tools
You need to glue it with Epoxy--wood glue won't work

We have a bunch of Richlite cutting boards which we have used every day for about ten years. After use they generally go into the dishwasher. They hold up extremely well under this, which is much more demanding than anything a fretboard has to endure. There are knife scratches, but no delaminations, flakes, or low spots worn in.

I have been buying Richlite stock from The Cutting Board Company online--they will sell you 1/2 or 1/4 black cut to whatever size you like

Certainly there are many reasons to prefer wood which is a beautiful material and natural etc etc. A uniformly black board is a traditional kind of look, simple and elegant. Richlite conveys that looks and has all the visual advantages of uniformly black ebony, with the advantage of being easier to work. Bob Taylor can go soak his head

**lammie200** · 05-13-2016, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by PB+J

...Bob Taylor can go soak his head

Haha! I have nothing against those that like Taylor guitars, but it seems that his whole premise was to rip off Martin designs and charge Martin prices from the get go.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-13-2016, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by lammie200

Haha! I have nothing against those that like Taylor guitars, but it seems that his whole premise was to rip off Martin designs and charge Martin prices from the get go.

Huh?

The Taylor GA body is one of the few innovations in the acoustic guitar field in the last...oh...100 years.

I don't think a single Taylor guitar is remotely like a Martin, in looks, feel sound, etc.

**lammie200** · 05-13-2016, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Huh?

The Taylor GA body is one of the few innovations in the acoustic guitar field in the last...oh...100 years.

I don't think a single Taylor guitar is remotely like a Martin, in looks, feel sound, etc.

OK

**mr. beaumont** · 05-13-2016, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by lammie200

OK

I sense a little snarkiness, perhaps?

But really, do you think any of Taylor's design or aesthetic is remotely like Martin? Perhaps you're thinking of Collings, the guy who makes better Martins than Martin

**lammie200** · 05-13-2016, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

...But really, do you think any of Taylor's design or aesthetic is remotely like Martin? ...

I do, but it isn't worth side tracking the thread to debate. Probably shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

BTW, if you want snarkiness watch the Bob Taylor video about ebony.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-13-2016, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by lammie200

I do, but it isn't worth side tracking the thread to debate. Probably shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

BTW, if you want snarkiness watch the Bob Taylor video about ebony.

Bob's just gloating because he was smart 20 years ago

It's all good...I just don't see it. I mean, if you really want to get down to it, everybody's ripping off Martin, right? Except the guitars they're making are playable above the fifth fret.

Ok, I'll stop.

**John A.** · 05-13-2016, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I sense a little snarkiness, perhaps?

But really, do you think any of Taylor's design or aesthetic is remotely like Martin? Perhaps you're thinking of Collings, the guy who makes better Martins than Martin

Currently it's the other way around (e.g., Martin GPCPA series), but Taylor has always made dreadnoughts.

John

**[email protected]** · 07-03-2016, 01:22 AM

Ebony all the way! Feels great.
How about Pao Ferro? At first I was hesitant then had builder use on an electric neck. Fell in Love with it.
It does not soak up the humidity during 4 hour outdoor gigs in Florida, whereas Ebony gets little sticky. Pao Ferro stays dry and dense. Nice feel like ebony and great wood grains.
GREAT WOOD that could help some of you true ebony lovers

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-03-2016, 04:17 AM

I've never owned a Richlite guitar, but I've played plenty, and it's fine by me. I prefer rosewood to ebony or Richlite, but they both makes for a good fingerboard as well.

**Robertkoa** · 07-06-2016, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

I have a LP Supreme and a Midtown Custom as well as several others with ebony and I cannot tell the difference... then again unless the fb has a glossy finish like Fenders do I can't tell the difference from rosewood or maple, or ebony either.

Funny many gits with ebony fb have HUGE fret markers... if I were THAT sensitive the difference between the ebony and marker it would drive me loopy.

Not only can I NOT feel a pea under my mattress I likely couldn't feel an anvil if it were there :-)

This may be the reason that Anvils are never made of Ebony-
Seriously though- your LP Supreme has really cool EVO Gold Fretwire-can you feel that ?

I generally prefer smaller inlays to feel the wood more..
but with the medium jumbo frets I like ...am I really feeling the wood ?
I played a Gibson Bonamassa Studio LP which was a really nice warm fat sounding LP a few years ago and did not like the Gold Paint Finish but liked the fingerboard feel a lot- turns out it was a wood called
Granadillo...in between Rosewood and Ebony- nice stuff.
The particular LP had a really nice unplugged Tone..probably lots of nice Fretboard Woods that can be used...