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Hello!
I am considering the main differences between these two archtops. Both have same scale length, nut width and rim thickness. Is Le Grand basically a thin-line Gibson L-5, or has it more the specs of Johnny Smith guitar of Gibson?
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04-01-2016 09:55 AM
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I have never played a Heritage Golden Eagle, wish i would have had a chance to do so - maybe one day.
My L5's (both CES models) are quite different from my LeGrand which is definitely much more of an acoustic instrument as opposed to the L5's which i consider electric in terms of feel and sound. The LeGrand is smaller, not 17" but 16 1/2 and also shorter. It is said to be the continuation of the Gibson Johnny Smith but i believe the couple of JS i played long ago were heavier built than the LeGrand is.
edit:
Sorry guys, i just realized that i was mistaken about the size of the LeGrand. The body IS smaller than a regular L5. It is shorter but still 17" at the lower bout.Last edited by JazzNote; 04-04-2016 at 03:28 PM. Reason: false information
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Hello!
Thanks for your reply. I have a Golden Eagle from 1997, with a floating pickup and I have heard that it is closest possible guitar to Gibson L5C, with a little bit smaller body and thinner body. Another comparable would be Gibson Super V CES, with a floater.
I hope I had a chance to compare these two guitars, Le Grand and GE side by side, but Gibson Le Grands are VERY rare guitars, I don't know any Le Grand guitars currently available here in the Netherlands. I am thinking of getting a Le Grand, which is quite pricey, even when bought as a second hand. Johnny Smiths are also good, but they have a little bit shorter scale length, and I prefer the 25,5 length. The other option would be Heritage Golden Eagle with a little bit chunkier neck, which would be much more affordable even as a custom order with specified neck measurements. I am now trying to sell my current GE and thinking what would be my next axe. My current GE's neck feels a bit too thin for my hands.
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My Le Grand is definitely more of an acoustic than my L5s ....
I've been lusting after the new L5 Premiers with the floating pickups .... great electric guitars and they have a nice acoustic voice ... but nowhere near the volume of my Le Grand .... My L5 Wes has as much of an acoustic voice as the L5Ps that I've played
The Le Grand can be a great guitar ...
The Golden Eagle can be awesome as well ..... find one with a floater that's been set up for more of an acoustic voice and you could also have a great guitar that is a match for a good Le Grand
I'm a Gibson fan so I understand the allure of the Gibson name
But Heritage guitars can be quite good ....
the catch is that the Golden Eagles have more of a custom order with variances depending on who ordered them, while the Le Grands are more of a standardized model and more consistent in their production
In the end Heritage vs Gibson is a win win IMHO
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The Le Grand is basically a Gibson Johnny Smith produced after he left Gibson to take his endorsement to Heritage. The Le Grand is a magnificent guitar and should be highly rated as an acoustic Archtop with a floating pickup. It is best compared to the Heritage Johnny Smith, also awesome and subject of another recent thread. The GE is a different beast.
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The Le Grand is what Gibson has been making from the old Johnny Smith formula since Mr. Smith walked away with his endorsement (rather, stayed in Kalamazoo with his endorsement). It is a very good guitar. As one writer pointed out, it is inherently more of an acoustic guitar than the modern L-5 is. The top is carved thinner than is the case with the L-5--which has to support at least one, and possibly two inset humbuckers. It is also a shallower guitar than the L-5, but by no means is it a thinline. The Le Grand is 3" thick--like the Heritage guitars. The typical L-5 is 3-3/8 inches deep, which is actually noticeably deeper than a 3" deep guitar.
I must confess that I haven't played a Le Grand. I have played several Gibson Johnny Smiths and a couple of Heritage Johnny Smith "The Rose" guitars.
To me, the very best of the type that I have played was an early 60s Gibson version in excellent condition. The guitar was nicely played in and had a wonderful, lively acoustic voice. The neck, action, etc., were just great, too. The typical Gibson Johnny Smith is a remarkably great guitar. If you could only have one jazz guitar, and you wanted a guitar with a different voice than a L-5CES, this would be one way to go, IMO.
The Heritage JS Rose guitars I have played are _right up there_ with the Gibson versions, IMO. They should be--they are built by the same people. I have only played early 90s examples. I thought they were excellent. I could easily imagine myself owning only a Heritage JS.
Again, I can't comment first-hand on the Le Grand, but they sure look like the contemporary Gibson version of a very tried and true formula. I believe Gibson changed the scale to 25-1/5" from Mr. Smith's preferred 25". This is sensible, though. I know that I would prefer this. The body, though, is still a 3" deep, X-braced, carved spruce, solid maple sides/back from the JS model.
I don't imagine you could go wrong with any of the three. Me? I'd personally want a GJS or a Heritage, then a GLG, but that's me basing a decision solely upon what I already know. Check them all out.
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Hello!
Thank you for your reply! All of you had interesting points.
I am looking a purely acoustic archtop, I have already a Gibson ES-165 with a mounted pickup, and with a very comfortabe neck. So if I would go to Gibson L-5, it would be the very acoustic version of it. Acoustic Gibson Super 400 is a great guitar as well. Maybe a Gibson holds it value better than a custom made Heritage with specified neck dimensions, but I can't surely go wrong if I go to Heritage. I asked Jay Wolfe about the prices of making a custom made Heritage Golden Eagle, and the price was very reasonable compared to the Gibson. Jay always gives a good discount price. I would get the neck I have always wanted. But Gibson is not a bad choice! The only thing is that they are often damn expensive.Last edited by Epistrophy; 04-01-2016 at 04:18 PM.
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Danny W. would be the expert on the Gibsons mentioned above. For me personally, I have never played a Heritage Golden Eagle that wowed me in any way. Not saying there aren't any, but I've played a bunch and never was very impressed.
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Hello!
Originally Posted by jads57
It is a matter of taste. Some don't find Heritage so impressive, I understand it. Personally, I like my current Golden Eagle a lot, I would keep it, if the neck shape was a little bit chunkier. It has the sound I have always wanted from an acoustic archtop, especially when amplified. Unamplified the sound is only a little bit louder than in my laminated ES-165. If I used round wounds, it would make a difference in the acoustic volume. I use Thomastik 013-053 flat wounds in it and pretty high action, and it has the sound which can be heard on Kenny Burrell's or early Pat Martino's records. I have very big hand, and the neck feels too thin for me. I am primarily waiting to get my current Golden Eagle sold to make a custom order to Heritage to get a GE with my specified neck dimensions, but I am thinking seriously of getting an used carved Gibson archtop, which is match for Heritage Golden Eagle by its features and for a reasonable price.Last edited by Epistrophy; 04-01-2016 at 04:48 PM.
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I had a custom Golden Eagle made for me in 1989 with exotic bubble maple and a floating pickup. The guitar was ordered through Mandolin brothers and I had a great deal of communication with the Heritage guys throughout the build. I specifically expressed my desire for a great acoustic sounding instrument,... over amplification feedback resistance. Originally Posted by Epistrophy
The guitar came out decent....with a very loud mid range and
tight piercing highs.... but with a dissapointing tight bass which never really satisfied my jazz fingerstyle playing. It was better suited to plectrum playing and was not very balanced. The Golden Eagle is a 25-1/2 guitar with a rather steep angle off the bridge saddle and always felt too tight.
As for the LeGrand , I currently own a Jim Hutchins period Legrand and the scale length is 25-3/8, with perfect neck set angle and shallower angle off the saddle. The guitar is extraordinary ....with a thick rich balanced tone throughout the entire fingerboard, plays effortlessly and has endless sustain ......and a bass response that vibrates your body.
For me there is no comparison , the Legrand is far superior in many ways than the Golden Eagle I owned, and I mean no disrespect to Heritage owners....they are great guitars. The Heritage Johnny smith ...at 25 inch scale is much closer to the Legrand. Ive owned a few of them and felt they were better than the Golden Eagles ....due to better bass response, ease of playability and they posses an increased sustain ...and less tightness than the Golden Eagle.....just my experience.
Bottom line.....if your looking for more acoustic sound - get the Legrand .....mine is extraordinary and in a different league.Last edited by QAman; 04-01-2016 at 04:53 PM.
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I recently purchased 5 L5s. Out of the bunch, only 1 was any good. Originally Posted by jads57
Whereas the last 3 Heritage Eagles I played were great. Gibson's quality is all over the map until you go back to the '80s.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
My father has a new Gibson L7C, an acoustic L7 from the early 2000s. All the reviews told that the guitar is great by it's acoustic tone. It really was not what was written in the reviews. The acoustic tone was something else. The guitar was a complete dud especially by it's bridge. The bridge was badly made. Then my father took it to the luthier to replace the whole bridge. Now the sound has improved, though.Last edited by Epistrophy; 04-01-2016 at 05:10 PM.
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Steve. Heritage Johnny Smith guitars are good for sure, I am also thinking of getting one of those, if it is not going to be the Golden Eagle. But with a decent amplifier, be it twin reverb, deluxe reverb or even with pro junior with a high quality speaker, you can get a preferred sound out of the Golden Eagle. Good amp is a true investment. I use Jensen 10r in my pro jr and the sound is perfect in my GE.
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Find yourself a Legrand . Here is a pic of mine for some inspiration Originally Posted by Epistrophy
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Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
Le Grand is surely a great by it's acoustic properties, and for it's playability. I would gladly try one of those, but they are very rare instruments and there are not many available for testing purposes.
For me, the acoustic sound doesn't matter as much as the amplified sound. I am planning to do the custom order to Heritage also to get a chunkier and wider neck which is similar to my ES-165 Herb Ellis, to make the finger style playing easier. With a wider neck you get more string spacing, and finger style becomes is easier, of course.
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Steve, that's gorgeous buddy.
100% class just like its owner.
JD
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Nice picture Steve! I will seriously think of buying a Le Grand, if I find one for more reasonable price.
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I'm sure Heritage will build you a fine instrument - they are good folks and I wish you the best with the build.
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Thanks for the kind words Joe. One day when we get together you have to play this - it's round sweet tone is captivating .....hard to put it down. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
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But you are right, the current GE I have, is not maybe the best guitar for finger style playing, for me at least. It is a little bit challenging for me to play finger style with that guitar. I just realised that when I remembered the past of spending time with that guitar and playing finger style. There are guitars which are made more for that purpose, for example Johnny Smiths of Ibanez, Heritage or Gibson and Gibson ES-175, of course. Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
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Custom made neck with 1 3/4 nut would be perfect! Originally Posted by Epistrophy
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Keep in mind - the Heritage Johnny Smith has a 1-3/4 nut. Also- When you order you pay full retail. I think a Heritage Johnny Smith might be a perfect guitar for you- unless you want that 25-1/2 scale.
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Hello! Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
I am not sure about the neck of the Johnny Smith guitar of Heritage, if it is comfortable or too thin. I would like to try it also. Nowadays if I don't buy a custom made guitar with my own measurements, I will always try first before buying, even with those high-end Gibsons. I haven't tried Heritage JS yet, they are quite rare instruments as well, and currently out of production. They are great, I know that, as great as the original Gibsons! It was Jay Wolfe, the biggest Heritage dealer, who told me that best to specify your preferred neck dimensions so that the guitar feels right for your hands. I bought Gibson ES-165 from eBay without trying it first, and it felt good. I was lucky that I found a guitar with a right neck. Now I am planning to make a custom ordered guitar, which neck is based on my Gibson ES-165's neck dimensions, if there is not a ready made guitar, which would be cheaper to buy, and with a comfy neck. Heritage JS is also a potential one, for me.
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According to Jay Wolfe, Custom made Heritage costs 3900 to 4900 dollars, depending if it is Classic Eagle or Golden Eagle, and with a floater. Hardshell case costs 240 dollars, but is only optional. I have a good case already for my prospect custom made Heritage, so 240 dollars can be reduced from the overall price. Originally Posted by Epistrophy
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Taking it all into consideration , and to minimize risk of not being comfortable with an uncertain neck size - custom sounds like the way to go for you.
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