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Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
That is also true. It can be uncomfortable. The thing is that I try now to sell my guitar to get the money and think what to do next. Custom made guitar is an option, good for me, but there is another options too. I could find a good guitar without making the custom order. Time will tell when it is the right time to do the right decisions. I have to wait until I get my guitar sold, it can take a while.
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04-01-2016 07:03 PM
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You may be able to order a Golden Eagle with Johnny Smith specs .....
Heritage has done that for folks in the past .. even with Super Eagles
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Great option! I have be in touch with Jay Wolfe and ask the price of making that type of guitar. Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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And I try to seek those Le Grands for trying. I may find a cheap one with a comfy neck.
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Jack w/ all due respect , you can't be serious 5 recent GibsonL-5CES and only 1 was good? I'm not sure what Kool Aid you're drinking but it ain't even close between the newer Gibson archtops and any Heritage archtop. This isn't even Apples to Oranges comparison. If that were the case the Heritage archtops would definitley hold their value, and Gibson in no way could ask there current price. Which I agree is too much in the current economy.
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I have owned several Johnny Smith and 3 legrandes and currently own one of each along with an L-5. The Legrand is a decedent of the Johnny Smith however they are very different in terms of sound. As far as build goes the Legrand is heavier than the Johnny smith. The actual diminsions are close on both but not exact. The Johnny Smith is built with the neck extension built right on to the top which gives the smith a bit more sustain than the Legrand. Johnny Smiths have a signature sound if you will. The Legrands I have found, fall in to two camps some are kind of bright but the one I currently own is voiced with a very strong bass response much more so than the smith. If you look at you tube videos you can plainly hear the two personalities. The Gibson Johnny smith has a sound of it's own. Electrically they all sound very close. Acoustically their are some differences between examples, much the same as any archtop. The legrand sounds much closer to an accoustic L-5. Both great
Originally Posted by Epistrophy
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The same kool-aid that causes you to think a quilter sounds better than a dumble apparently.
And value is more akin to popularity and fads and what looks good leaning against the couch than anything else.
And frankly, many of the opinions on this thread are voiced by folks selling their gibsons off or by folks with gibson collections so, naturally they say Gibsons are much better, lol.
Originally Posted by jads57
Last edited by jzucker; 04-02-2016 at 09:20 AM.
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what I *WILL* say is that if you get a great L5 it will sound better than the best Heritage Eagle but on average, neither company has the greatest record. You actually have to compare each guitar individually. It's not like a widget carved from inorganic material.
It's wood and manual labor is involved.
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Ha ha after I post a picture of my kids leaning against a couch! That's not a fair statement at all. The archtop guitar in general is not a very popular item nor is it part of any fad that I know of. Those guitars that I showed are the current favorites in a lifetime of search. They are great looking guitars but not collector pieces by any means.They all sound and play great! They may not suite your needs and that's ok. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Sorry, I didn't mean that as an attack . Your collection is awesome and those instruments look beautiful. Originally Posted by skiboyny
But i disagree with you about fads. Collectors favor gibson, regardless of whether they are any good and regardless of whether the overall popularity of archtops is a small fraction of the overall market. It's a name-driven economy. The gibsons that are made today have little to no bearing on the instruments made years ago.
Around the late '80s the quality turned and a modern L5 is nothing like an L5 made in the late '80s, muchless the 50s or 60s.
I've owned and played enough to know.
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I have to agree with JZ on these points. I like Gibson's current offerings, but they are different than they used to be. The same can be said of Fender.
meanwhile, the market IS name driven. No beef there from me.
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I defiantly agree with you about collectors favoring Gibson and for that I have to say I'm kind of glad cause maybe my investment is protected. Nothing wrong with that. I've played my share of Gibsons along with countless other brands. In the end for me, I think I'm programmed for the Gibson sound. When I hear something that sounds great (to my ears) it usually turns out to be Gibson. Thanks for the complement on my collection. They are all played and sound much better than they look!
Originally Posted by jzucker
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i do like gibson better but only from the late '80s backwards. The '90s and '00s and '10s instruments are clearly different beasts and the quality control is horrid.
case in point, I bought a custom shop tal farlow and the nut was cut so the distance between the E and B strings was 1/2 the width of the rest of the strings. First of all, how does that happen on a high end gibson, much less a custom shop instrument? How does a $6k instrument have that problem and how did it get through quality control?
Not saying heritage is any better because I've seen abominations from them as well such as the very first eagle I ever bought where the seam on the back was offset (not centered) by about a 1/2". I think their quality control is better now but still...
And custom instruments may have better quality control but they don't retain their value. Sorry folks, they just don't. You pay $7500 for a triggs and you're lucky to get $3500 for it but it takes forever to sell.
But then again, all archtops are overpriced these days. The pricing of L5s ($7500ish) is outlandish. It's based on pricing from before the economy , much less the archtop market collapsed. The problem is that only old-timers are buying these guitars. Guitar isn't featured in today's music and the young jazz guitarists are leaning more towards semihollows or thinner instruments. I don't see the archtop market doing anything but continuing to shrink...
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Lots of great points there Jack and you would be hard pressed to get anyone to disagree. I'm willing to bet that you could find some great examples from the 80s and forward though. Worth that kind of money? Only you can decide. The people that buy them to collect, are looking for the glass case models. In a shrinking market as you say, that leaves a whole bunch of great sounding and playing guitars at a much more realistic price point for you and I to buy and play. Always a bright spot brother!
Originally Posted by jzucker
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I am young player in my early twenties and I like hollowbodies more than anything else. You are right. Gibsons are overpriced. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Jack Z I guess I need to clarify a couple of points for you. I don't own a Gibson archtop, so I have nothing to gain financially. In fact I can't stand Henry J the owner of Gibson, so my opinion is based on the actual instruments.
An aside from this thread:
I never said the Quilter was better than a Dumble, rather way more useful in more situations. Also , I've got a feeling you either don't gig very much, or perhaps never actually give any of your gear a fair chance.
I say this not be an insult but rather your strong opinions don't seem be based in most real gig situations.
I myself have been accused of going through gear like water LOL!
But I've never seen anybody go through so much quality gear at so fast a rate w/out at least gigging w/ it at least first.
I do think your opinions in some cases are right on, not always but what's interesting at least to me is how you buy, sell and then buy the same guitar/amp/etc. again. L5's 5 of them, Barney Kessels , Carvin Alan Holdsworth models , ES-175 ? I get there are slight differences but why not just go to some place like Dave's Guitar or Wildwood Guitars that has plenty to choose from? I think it might be a lot more cost effective for you.
Again this is not an insult but rather an observation of your strong opinions of gear. I'll be the the first to admit I'm a bit crazy when it comes to GAS as well!
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Nice pics skiboyny. Gorgeous guitars you have. Personally I wouldn't pay more than 4500 dollars for a guitar. Up to that amount it is already a lot of money. Gibsons are great, especially the guitars to the late 80s. Also some modern Gibsons made after 80s are surely great.
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p.s. I have nothing against loving your guitars and taking pictures of them but beauty doesn't mean they sound great. The new gibsons are beautiful instruments. I just haven't played a gibson that sounded as good as the instruments made 30-40 years ago. A lot of people on this forum have a fetish for shiny new guitars and that's cool. I don't but I have a fetish for road worn guitars so I guess we're even.
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Not my business, but be it Gibson or anything, which is ready made without the own given specifications to the possible luthier, I would try first before buying, and in some shop. Originally Posted by jads57
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That's also true. Originally Posted by jzucker
p.s. I have nothing against loving your guitars and taking pictures of them but beauty doesn't mean they sound great. The new gibsons are beautiful instruments. I just haven't played a gibson that sounded as good as the instruments made 30-40 years ago. A lot of people on this forum have a fetish for shiny new guitars and that's cool. I don't but I have a fetish for road worn guitars so I guess we're even.
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I guess we can agree we have strong opinions and different tastes,LOL!
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Le Grand under 5k would be nice, but almost impossible to find. I'm not sure about the neck. Custom order Gibson Le Grand would be much more expensive than a custom order Heritage Golden Eagle.
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My experience with Gibsons (and I have owned many) is this:
There are great examples from all eras, but there are differences. The climate is different in Kalamazoo than Nashville or Memphis, the builders were different folks in the different eras, the materials were different (old growth woods back in the day, different nitro etc.) and age changes the tone of a guitars wood and pickups to some degree. Is any era better? IMO, the older ones (pre 1965) are generally the best, but not always. I also think the 90's Gibsons are damn good (better in general than the guitars made in the 1970's).
I also think that Gibsons are a bit overpriced (they have exceeded inflation, the owners of Gibson have made it a "lifestyle" brand and are charging a premium. I would never buy a new one at full blast retail (if you can get one at wholesale, I think they are priced fairly). With NAFTA and all of the other terrible trade agreement, American labor has been devalued to the point where you can get an Asian made guitar for pennies on the dollar compared to a Gibson. Luckily for Gibson, the Asian made guitars are not as good. For the time being, anyway.
Archtop guitars are not gaining in popularity these days, but that might change. I am old enough to remember the mid 1970's, when nobody wanted an archtop guitar and they were priced very fairly ($1,000 would buy you a real D'Angelico in NYC in those days). Things changed and they might change again up the road. Anyone who thinks that the styles and trends of today are certain to be the styles and trends of tomorrow is a fool. Things change. As the developing world gains purchasing power and the population of the world increases, there is a strong possibility that demand for fine archtops will be quite strong (way up the road). But short term, I think the conditions are somewhat grim. Jazz and the archtop guitar are NOT in a growth phase at the moment. In fact, just the opposite is occurring, so I would not be buying archtops as an "investment".
I have played a few Heritage guitars (and owned one) and have a favorable opinion of them. The market does not. Gibsons have way more demand than Heritage guitars do, and are easier to sell and bring more money (they cost more as well). A LeGrand is not a Johnny Smith, but comparing it to a Golden Eagle (with a floater) is a fair comparison. As each guitar sounds different, I would say that there a fine examples of both to be had. The Heritage will cost less, and will sell for less up the road.
Another choice to consider in the Heritage Golden Eagle vs the Gibson LeGrand is the Guild Artist Award (one of the best values in a vintage hand carved acoustic archtop out there).
If you play before you buy (or get an approval period), find a guitar you love at a price you can afford, you will come out ahead, no matter which brand you buy.
Remember, nobody gets out of here alive, and we cannot take these guitars with us when we go. Enjoy them today and be inspired!
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shit! i hope you are wrong! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I'm still trying to find a way to take my favorite axe with me .....
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Egyptian pharaohs were buried with their stuff. Just a thought. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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