Solid state amps that are lightweight and can do fusion as well as jazz tones?

[christianm77]

I would say ideal fusion amp would actually have a lot of clean headroom and take pedals very well...

I've never been a fan of channel switching amps myself, the sound always seems to get swallowed up, so I prefer drive/boost pedals... So, I think Fenders are pretty great, or Rolands if you can get them sounding good with a drive pedal.

But, YMMV, Wayne Krantz uses Marshalls doesn't he?

On the other hand I've always been fairly impressed with Roland Cubes of all things... No-ones going to mistake them for a blackface fender or a Marshall stack, but they are pretty good sounding and uber practical.

[Cavalier]

"This is an interesting thread, however, I have to admit, I have no idea as to what a good fusion tone is.

Any good You Tube examples? Any way of specifying the tone or associated characteristics?"

Fusion, a logical development of 60s jams matured in the 70s as a hybrid of jazz and rock, approaches and sound/gear. World fusion then blended this with music from around the world etc.

Some other players-lJean Luc Ponty's gutarists Daryl Streumer and Jamie Glaser were a nice listen, John McLaughlin, John Goodsall of Brand X.

Many of these players used solid state amps for clean with pedal distortion for drive back then. It gives a more tech sound rather than the more natural sounding overdrive of tube amps.

[Cavalier]

I spelled Daryl's last name wrong, it should be Stuermer.

[Fusionshred]

this looks promising...

DV Mark FGC121


http://www.amazon.com/DV-Mark-FGC121...ds=dv+mark+amp

Jack,

Interesting that this is at that price point, considering that it replaces the old FG combo that was priced at something like $1200. I tried one of those out, and it was decent at low to moderate volume for clean, funky stuff, some capable clean jazz tones (not quite as fat as a Joe Pass Polytone tone - but acceptable) and a decent Holdsworth fusion tone. But at full band levels (just trio or quartet fusion), it just didn't have the power. I got totally lost. They misrepresented the wattage. They post the wattage as hooked up to an extension cab, not the combo by itself.

Don't know much about the new one.

I wish I could think of something. The Tech21 Trademark 60 keeps popping into my head but it won't cut it for you.

What about a Henriksen Jazzamp and a J Rockett Dude? I don't know if the Jazzamp can get funky enough, though.

[jzucker]

Jack Z I just tried the new Quilter MP200 HD 1x12" Combo again! At least try one, I think you'll see a big difference from your previous Aviator 1x12" The Boost function along w/ the Celestion Neo 300 watt speaker plus a smaller even lighter package are nothing short of stunning!

bwahahaha. you don't give up. Those teeny little cabinets are a problem for sounding full and for getting good pop and fusion tones.

[jzucker]

Then henriksen doesn't have the treble control in the right place to be able to get funk rhythm and good overdrive tones.

Anyway, I ended up buying a kemper to use with my PA cab for the purposes of this thread.

Jack,

Interesting that this is at that price point, considering that it replaces the old FG combo that was priced at something like $1200. I tried one of those out, and it was decent at low to moderate volume for clean, funky stuff, some capable clean jazz tones (not quite as fat as a Joe Pass Polytone tone - but acceptable) and a decent Holdsworth fusion tone. But at full band levels (just trio or quartet fusion), it just didn't have the power. I got totally lost. They misrepresented the wattage. They post the wattage as hooked up to an extension cab, not the combo by itself.

Don't know much about the new one.

I wish I could think of something. The Tech21 Trademark 60 keeps popping into my head but it won't cut it for you.

What about a Henriksen Jazzamp and a J Rockett Dude? I don't know if the Jazzamp can get funky enough, though.

[atomheart411]

The search never ends I guess. I have a couple of different formats I play. One is through a Zoom Tac2-r into MacBook Pro into either a PA or an amp. The other is through a couple pedals on a board including a tube preamp, then into an Eventide H9 and finally an amp.That's where I'd like to put an amp, on the board. For larger gigs I use a QSC PLD 4.2. I like that and I use it in my studio for monitoring as well. I should add that I am using a pair of Audio Nirvana 12" 'Classic' Ferrite speakers.

I agree with Jack's POV re: a SS amp for clean and fusion. It just needs ample clean head room and take pedals well. So I had been using a Crate power Block for years for small gigs. For me it fit the bill perfectly, especially with that stereo effects loop. If I opened up the gain just a wee bit a good dirt pedal sounded okay while the rest stayed clean. But that amp has developed a really annoying low end harmonic distortion that's present at all volume levels. If you are playing with dirt it's not as evident but it just never sounds perfectly clean anymore. I could replace it cheaper than repairing it but they're all getting a little old by now.

Hence the search. There's an inherent problem with almost every small form SS amp out there. They are still intent on mimicking tube amps and so it seems anything over 12 o'clock on the volume dial brings in increasing levels of distortion. From what I can tell Quilter, Ethos, and ISP Stealth do this. I get it. that's where the biggest market is. So I've been looking at small chip based class D amps. Texas Instruments makes some amazing powerful little chip amps. But again, if you look at the specs, at full rated wattage the THD is 10%. It's the same distortion curve it seems. About half the volume stays closer to .1% or less. But if the power rating id say 100 watts then half of that should be cool for small gigs. But I'm guessing and nobody has any experience playing an instrument through these things. But the audiophile community loves them.

Sorry. That was a lot of verbiage to say I'm still searching. But I really appreciate the dialogue!

[MaxTwang]

In addition to the TI power amps take a look at ICE Power, they are part of Bang & Olufson and make outstanding light and small power amp boards. Keeper uses one in their Power Head.

[jzucker]

KEMPER, KEMPER, KEMPER...That is the solution. They seem to be going for high $1300's now. I already have the powered cabs so the kemper and the powered cab is amazing. Head and shoulders better than any SS jazz amp because you can not only get polytone and evans type sounds but you can get any old vintage fender style amp as well.

So for a total investment of about $1500, you can have a 1000w amp that smokes quilter, evans, and the like...

[MaxTwang]

Aren't you selling your Kemper in the For Sale forum?

As for modelers: is there a decent 20 lb FRFR monitor? The CLR NEO is 35 lbs and pretty bulky.

[lauwing]

Just curious. Why don't you use the AxeFx for this purpose?

[medblues]

As for modelers: is there a decent 20 lb FRFR monitor? The CLR NEO is 35 lbs and pretty bulky.

Alto TS110a (26 lbs) is one that's gaining popularity here and elsewhere.

[rickshapiro]

I thought I would add another voice for the Quilter MP 2 with the Neo 12. Honestly I could not think of a solid state without modeling that is as versatile and practical . I have been using it in all situations. 7 piece rock band in rooms of around 500 people with my solid bodies. An acoustic trio using my Godin nylon, and a restaurant gig doing jazz with my archtops. I've even used it for keys at a small but loud party. I am the second guitar player in the rock band. The other player is using a Suhr Badger with either a Surh 1x12 or Bogner 1x14. The Quilter keeps up and sounds very full. I cannot tell you how many times people look incredulously at the amp due to its physical size and then are wowed when they hear it. There are so many controls on the amp I rarely think of it as one amp. There is a great jazz tone in there, a great classic rock, great acoustic sound. I am using different voices, boosts and channels. Lastly, it is extremely light.

[atomheart411]

Yeah Max, thanks for the reminder. IcePower (Bang Olufson) looks like the main rival to Texas Instruments in this development. And those boards are in a lot of gear ( Current customers seem to include Alpine, Aston Martin, Asus, Audi, Bowers & Wilkins, Fender Musical Instruments Corporation, Eclipse by Fujitsu Ten, Elipson, Genz-Benz, Jeff Rowland, MartinLogan, Pioneer, PS Audio, Rotel, Seymour AV, Vazari Audio, Samsungas well as Bang & Olufsen.^{[6] wikipedia} ) And in the Kemper as well. Much of those applications are in automobile sound systems which is a good sign. Those modules have a rep for being very well built and rugged. My problem is two-fold. I use my MacBook for all modeling/synths etc. And I reeeally want stereo, which those boards are completely capable of. Their just not being implemented as stereo in the instrument gear unless it's a modeler. I love modeling. I joke that my little MacBook is an infinite room of rack gear and pedals.

But I'm looking for a small stereo pedal board amp. Those small bass amps would be perfect for a lot of folks with the EQ and DI features and such. That TC Electronic BH250 has lots of built in effects even. If any of those were stereo I would be satisfied to just plop it on top of a speaker and call it good. If I knew what I was doing I'd take one of those boards and build my own. I'm going to try and solicit some one to do that.

[MaxTwang]

ICEPower has done a great job with documentation, direct whoever does the job to their website. Should be a fairly simple job, just make sure the enclosure has sufficient heat dissipation.

[sgcim]

Yeah: I find that if you turn up any of the tone controls at all on the Bandit, it sounds bad for jazz. The tone controls are useful for getting rock/fusion type sounds, including those using distortion/overdrive, on the lead channel. But it gets a really nice, dark and punchy jazz sound through the clean channel with all the tone controls all the way down.

However, replacing the speaker made a huge difference: I found that the stock Blue Marvel sounded bad in general. It wasn't totally horrible set eq'd as described above, but the jazz sound improved immeasurably when I put the Fender Special Design speaker in it.

I tried the Bandit last night. It sounded great for comping, but when I had to play a solo, it didn't cut through the band at all. I started turning any knob I could while I was soloing, and wound up getting an overdrive sound that didn't fit the straight-ahead jazz chart, and didn't cut through the band either!

The college kids beat the Bandit up so bad, there was a hole where one of the input jacks used to be!
All it had was the high gain input, so I spent the night playing with the Post knob, the presence knob and all the tone control knobs, and found if i turned up the mid, I could at least cut through, but it didn't have the greatest jazz sound,
and got a loud hissing sound from the amp.

Looks like it's back to hauling my 17lb JazzKat down the stairs.

[jbernstein91]

I tried the Bandit last night. It sounded great for comping, but when I had to play a solo, it didn't cut through the band at all. I started turning any knob I could while I was soloing, and wound up getting an overdrive sound that didn't fit the straight-ahead jazz chart, and didn't cut through the band either!

The college kids beat the Bandit up so bad, there was a hole where one of the input jacks used to be!
All it had was the high gain input, so I spent the night playing with the Post knob, the presence knob and all the tone control knobs, and found if i turned up the mid, I could at least cut through, but it didn't have the greatest jazz sound,
and got a loud hissing sound from the amp.

Looks like it's back to hauling my 17lb JazzKat down the stairs.

Wow, sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Bandit. I assume you playing through the Clean channel, not the Lead channel, but in any case, it shouldn't have been distorting while you were soloing. I use mine at a regular jam that is actually pretty loud for a jazz session (miked piano and amplified upright bass with a drummer, and it gets louder and louder as other people -- assorted horn players and even other guitarists -- start showing up), and the Bandit cuts through the mix without any problem, while maintaining a clean and warm sound while soloing.

I suspect the issue is the speaker: I only started using the Bandit at this session after I took out its stock Blue Marvel speaker and replaced it with the Fender Special Design I had sitting around. But even in my basement it was obvious that the Blue Marvel sounded crappy.

[jzucker]

Alto TS110a (26 lbs) is one that's gaining popularity here and elsewhere.

I bought a CLR Neo and sold it after comparing it to my TS110a. Now there's a TS210a that's even better. (no, it's not 2x10)

[jzucker]

I tried the Bandit last night.

Which version? If it was a version prior to the red-line version it's a totally different amp.

[sgcim]

This must be an old model; it didn't have a Clean Channel or Lead Channel.
I think one channel (which didn't have an input anymore) was called the Normal Channel, and the other one seemed to be the High Gain.
It looked like one of the PVs from the 70s or 80s, definitely not 90s.
I had no idea how to use it, after I had to go from comping to playing a solo.
It definitely needed the tone controls turned up for single note playing.

[sgcim]

Which version? If it was a version prior to the red-line version it's a totally different amp.

Yeah, that must be it. It's a POS!

[jzucker]

Yeah, that must be it. It's a POS!

post a picture.

this is the good one.

[jzucker]

regarding the quilter, please someone post some great jazz and fusion tones because the stuff on youtube is apparently not representative.

[sgcim]

post a picture.

this is the good one.

Not even close. That looks like my EFX 112 Transtube, which is a nice amp, but it's heavier than my AI, Cube, and JaazzKat.
This one looks like those horrible rectangle shaped PVs made in the 70s or 80s.

[jzucker]

well SGCIM, i've said over and over that it's the transtube bandit that has the tube-like circuit, lol...Maybe not in this thread though.