Peerless Songbird vs Epiphone Casino

**jameslandman** · 01-12-2016, 06:03 AM

Hello I have a question, I have been looking into, maybe buying a second hand Casino. Now I know that Peerless use to make or still makes the Epiphone guitars. Since there are quite some different Casino's and in different price range, I was wondering what the real difference is. Don't know if it is true that the Peerless Songbird is the same guitar as the Epi Casino, But new the Songbird is a bit more expensive than the Casino. So how do I compare the two?

**va3ux** · 01-12-2016, 08:52 AM

I don't know how you would compare the two, other than side-by-side in person. And that seems unlikely.

While Peerless used to make guitars for Epiphone, I believe all that stopped a few years ago. I believe most or all Epiphone guitars (other than perhaps Elitist models) are built in Epi's own factory in China.

The Peerless Songbird could well be the Casino that Peerless used to make for Epiphone

**jameslandman** · 01-12-2016, 04:40 PM

Would that be comparable to the Epi casino Elitist?

**neatomic** · 01-12-2016, 08:26 PM

the peerless is probably most comparable to the older standard casino... find an older late 90's-early 2000's casino, that was made in korea..later they were made in china and indonesia..

also keep your eye out for an "inspired by lennon" casino...made in asia but with usa p90 pickups..and truer to vintage specs...gibson pups are a vast improvement on standard epi casino pups...(which are wound with the wrong gauge wire)

the elitist is the highest level of casino..but inspired by is close for alot less money

cheers

**jameslandman** · 01-14-2016, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the advice, hope to find one for a reasonable price :-)

**s1track3d** · 01-16-2016, 03:41 AM

I’ve had a recent Peerless Songbird and a 1996 Epiphone Casino (Peerless plant). I have never played a Epi Elitest Casino. They do share the same construction, both fully hollow thin-line.

The Songbird is a beautiful, very well made guitar which was far superior to the Epi Casino in build quality. Unfortunately Peerless really skimped on the electronics, the Songbird had subpar electronics and pickups. (Although, I guess most people say the same about the Korean made Epiphones

)

Between the Casino and the Songbird, if 'fit and finish' are really important to you, I’d say go for the Songbird.
If you just want the sound, I’d get the standard Casino. (Folks often recommend the 90’s Korean ones).

I agree with neatomic, I would suggest the ‘inspired by Lennon’ or Elitist if you have the money.

**jameslandman** · 01-16-2016, 05:17 AM

Great thank you all, I will be looking for a used Songbird or a Inspired by Lennon, I don't have the money for either one new.

Thanks for the great advice

**jameslandman** · 03-02-2016, 11:35 AM

Since your advice I have been looking around for the inspired by Lennon and the Peerless songbird in Europe, but they are pretty scarce. From the Us will be to expensive due to the shipping and taxes on top of it. There are some sometimes to be found in the UK, but most of the people there are not so used sending stuff overseas it seems.

If I could get hold of a casino made in the Peerless factory period and would change the Pick-up's would that come close to the inspired by Lennon or is that one just a lot better because it is Japanese made?

**mongrel** · 03-02-2016, 01:54 PM

The older Casinos made in the Peerless factory in South Korea will have serial numbers beginning with "R". These are the ones you want.

**jameslandman** · 03-02-2016, 01:57 PM

Yes I found that out also, from 1994 till 2006 I believe?
But could you upgrade one of these with the Gibson pickups?

**mongrel** · 03-02-2016, 02:47 PM

Gibsons, sure. Or any dog-ear P-90 from any after-market maker. Its just a matter of what sounds you are chasing and your budget. If I had a Casino and wanted to upgrade pickups, I'm afraid I could spend hundreds of hours listening to clips on YouTube and other sites.

**lammie200** · 03-02-2016, 02:51 PM

I may be wrong, but I have noticed that current Epi's don't use scarf jointed necks whereas Peerless does. Scarf jointed aren't necessarily bad, but just an observation.

**docdosco** · 03-02-2016, 02:54 PM

Peerless built Epiphone until Gibson failed to get them to relocate their plant to China in 2005. They preferred to stay at home in S. Korea. Then Gibson pulled their contacts and found factories in China to build Epis.

Hence, Peerless as a brand on it's own was born.

**jameslandman** · 03-02-2016, 04:56 PM

Yes concerning the P90 pickups, I have already been looking at Bareknuckle, but it is so hard to tell what you would need to get that vintage sound of the old casino's.

Doc would you say that the Peerless Songbird upgraded with Gibson USA P90 ( or something like it?) would come close to the Casino Elitist or the inspired by John Lennon which were recommended to me earlier in this thread?

**lammie200** · 03-02-2016, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by jameslandman

Yes concerning the P90 pickups, I have already been looking at Bareknuckle, but it is so hard to tell what you would need to get that vintage sound of the old casino's.

Doc would you say that the Peerless Songbird upgraded with Gibson USA P90 ( or something like it?) would come close to the Casino Elitist or the inspired by John Lennon which were recommended to me earlier in this thread?

Also Lindy Fralin makes humbucking P90's in a variety of outputs if you are so inclined.

**jameslandman** · 03-02-2016, 05:14 PM

Ok thank you

**neatomic** · 03-02-2016, 07:33 PM

careful...the neck angle on the standard epi casinos is too low for a gibson size p90...the epi pups are shallower!..not just a straight switch..jason lollar has whole page about it..read before ordering any replacement p90's!!

P-90 Dog Ear Style Pickup

cheers

**Bach5G** · 03-02-2016, 11:25 PM

What's the difference between a Songbird and a Sunset?

**jameslandman** · 03-03-2016, 01:36 AM

Thanks Neomatic, So what Gibson USA P90 do they use on the Elitist and inspired by Lennon then? it says in the specs that they have P90T and P90R. But are these made specially for these type of Casino? Or is their Neck angle different?

**neatomic** · 03-03-2016, 02:01 AM

neck angle and neck fret joint position is different on inspired by & elitist! so gibson size/normal p90's fit...

standard casino is tricky

inspired by lennon was great bang for buck!

cheers

**jameslandman** · 03-03-2016, 02:13 AM

Ok Great So a Peerless songbird is also tricky should be seen as a Standard Casino?

**jameslandman** · 03-03-2016, 01:50 PM

I am trying to find the original price of the Casino inspired by Lennon, I think I have found one but I have no clue if the price is right?

**Doctor Jeff** · 03-03-2016, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bach5G

What's the difference between a Songbird and a Sunset?

The Songbird is a double-cut, the Sunset single. The Songbird has P90's (though the specs on the GNJ page say HB's) and a fixed post TOM bridge.

The Sunset has a floating wooden bridge. They are both fully hollow.

From what I've read the trapeze with the fixed bridge on these guitars should allow for more "digging in" and a harder, more rock-based sound. On the other hand, at least with the neck pickup, the Sunset is super mellow--a quintessential jazz tone.

I haven't played a Songbird--should be a nice guitar in terms of fit and finish--if I were going to do anything rock-oriented or fusiony I would probably prefer it. The Sunset really nails a mellow jazz tone, but it wouldn't be my first choice for anything loud or overdriven.

**jameslandman** · 03-03-2016, 03:27 PM

Anyone knows anything about the Epiphone Casino Gary Clark jr, it is also a limited edition signature model with USA Gibson P90, would this be a similar guitar to the inspired by John Lennon?

**neatomic** · 03-03-2016, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by jameslandman

I am trying to find the original price of the Casino inspired by Lennon, I think I have found one but I have no clue if the price is right?

MSRP $1665.... Street $999 - tho when they discontinued it they were selling in the 700$ range

the gary clark jr epi is very similar..same neck joint and pickups..just blue! haha

cheers