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Looks bigger than LP???
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12-23-2013 01:51 PM
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Pat Martino is very small.
Originally Posted by Vladan
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Ah, ok then.
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No you're partly correct, Pat Martino's Benedetto has a 14 ½” lower bout and a Les Paul lower bout is between 12 3/4" and 13 3/16" depending on the year model etc, but basically IMO Pat Martino's Benedetto guitar is based on the Les Paul Guitar. Originally Posted by Vladan
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If budget is a concern, you really can't go wrong with a nice Epiphone LP. I've had several and they've always been stellar instruments. For an everyday guitar, one that you can count on and won't break the bank, I think Epi is a good choice. You'll still have a few hundred dollars left after purchasing the guitar and getting a proper setup. Originally Posted by kenhan
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Just my two cents:
A Les Paul is a heavy solid body guitar with set humbuckers and a 24.75" scale length. These attributes make it warm with lots of sustain. For rock, where you are using the bridge or both pickups, you've got brighter tones to compensate for those qualities, and the result is classic. However, it can be a challenge for jazz, which requires the neck pickup for the right tonal quality, because things get muddy and note separation in chords is not so good.
That's why a Tele is a more common solidbody choice of jazz players, because it has single coils (usually) and a longer 25.5" scale length, both of which make the guitar brighter. Or an ES-335, because it's a bit lighter and has some air inside it to reduce the sustain a bit and open up the tone.
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Re Epiphones and other LP copies: Couple of years ago, I went shopping for a guitar. I thought either LP (copy) or 335 (copy), or some Jazz Box, wasn't ure about it.
All LP's, can't remember all the makers, but Epi was one of more prominent, they all felt like a plank.
Epi kind of 335 did not make me feel good, action was awfull, sound was nothing special. There was one PeaVey 335, cheapest of all, it felt good, but volume pot fell appart while shop owner was carrying it to the counter.
Epi Swingster, though I found good, on the par with Ibaneze's, which generaly were much better than Epis.
That cheaper line of Gretches was in the same league with Ibanez, but ergonomicaly I could not adjust to a neck somehow bulging to far, I'd grab it, and there where I'd expect to find 7'th fret I was at 12th.
So, while contemplating btw Swingster and some Ibanez, someone offered me this "as new second hand"Squier X-155, and bingo, that was a guitar for me.
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I had a '91 LP 40th Anniversary. Gibson produced them in '91 and '92. This guitar had P100's and REALLY sounded so smooth and clean. I sold it about a decade ago and want to kick myself everytime I think about. It really was the best sounding solid body jazz guitar I ever owned. They are getting a bit harder to find, but check one out if you ever have the chance. Originally Posted by rpguitar
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Les Paul played a Les Paul
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I bought a LP 60s Tribute to compliment my L5 about a year ago, I use it for every thing now, and it looks like a small jazz guitar...P90s..set neck, what more would you want?... Oh yer!... it plays great too!....L..
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You need at least two solid-body guitars, one with a neck single coil and one with a neck humbucker.
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If I were going to try a Les Paul for jazz,I'd probably swap out the neck pickup for a P-90 style thing. (They make hum bucker sized P-90s). Or else get a Les Paul Jr. that already has them.
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Not sure that's quite right; I strongly suspect that the chambered benedetto benny/ martino is based on the hollow Guild Nightbird/ Bluesbird of the 1950s/ 70s. The Nightbird was designed by George Gruhn when he was a partner in Guild before Fender bought them. All those guitars are hollow- bodied with no f-holes, and Benedetto worked at Guild/fender for a time, so.... Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Ok, this is historical trivia perhaps, but it's worth noting that these guitars don't sound at all like a LP, they have much more air in the sound and a more acoustic tone ( and weigh about 3 lb less) and give a great electric jazz sound.
Not sure whether anyone's mentioned this, but the slow attack/ long sustain of an LP can be a disadvantage for jazz quaver lines, as the notes can seem to blur together. That said, it didn't bother Ulf or Les.
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Being a fan of G&L and 25 1/2" scale necks, I'd consider a Bluesboy-90 for that: Originally Posted by Boston Joe
or the Tribute line ASAT Junior II:
Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 12-24-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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If you are interested in an LP because it feels good in your hands AND you find the neck PUP to be too muddy for your tastes (there are all kinds of PUP combos in LP's now), AND you have one that doesn't already have a .015 neck cap and 500k vol pots...change 'em to that. It will lift the blanket right off of your amp. I have found that my playing stays the freshest if I keep cycling through guitars, and so sometimes I'm playing jazz with a Lester...swings just fine. I'm a big fan of playing what feels inspiring at the moment. I do get ideas as to what I'd like to try from what I see my favorites using, but...I just grab what speaks to me at that moment. Give it a shot for sure.
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How about a cool Wes Paul? That said, there are spruce-topped chambered Les Paul-shaped guitars out there which are made for jazz such the Japanese Seventy-Seven Stork Jazz.
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For those of you who want to use a Les Paul, Tele, or Moser NCS Morpheus for jazz playing, knock yourselves out. Really. Enjoy it. Same for the many lovely semis out there. I'm happy to use any one of them as well for jazz playing, in a pinch.
The rest of the time, I'll stick to one of several hollow, preferably carved-spruce-top archtop designs, that provide me with a sound and a feel that no solid-body guitar can ever come remotely close to approximating.
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I think we all need to be careful as to how we define "Jazz"...if you are only into the big jazz box guitar playing the neck humbucker with the tone completely rolled off and using heavy strings and thumb or heavy pick, that is only one of MANY forms of jazz. If you believe that is the only kind of jazz then you are not opening your mind, or your creativity.There are times I like that sound/feel, but mostly no. I prefer solid bodies for the bulk of my work, but that is ME, not everyone. I happen to like to change things up, but that is how I was taught when I was a 7 yr old kid learning jazz guitar from a jazz recording artist. He emphasized not being stagnant...not in my playing, not in my styling, not in my voicing, not in my equipment...so in 1962 he switched me to a 1961 Tele as that was the most ergonomic guitar for a small 7 yr old, and the following year I got a Strat. Eventually by 1970 I had the Tele, the Strat, a 1968 Les Paul and a 1969 Gretsch. Had a 335 but it was stolen at a gig in around '67 that the jazz ensemble he put together of his students I was lead guitar in, took a break. And to make it clear, I wasn't the lead guitarist because I was that much better, but because of my small hands I never could get chords down...I was a melody player...still am...
I mainly play ambient jazz, soul jazz, lounge jazz, acid jazz, and of course my signature(as my friends call it) Cowboy Surf Jazz...lol.
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Please don't confuse "form" with tone.
I can't stand the sound of a "big jazz box guitar playing the neck humbucker with the tone completely rolled off and using heavy strings and thumb or heavy pick." Players and sound engineers who settle for it deserve a special place in hell. But that's just my opinion.
I like Teles, Strats, Les Pauls and more, and play all of them, along with a variety of semis and archtops. Players can do whatever they want when it comes to gear choices. Ambient jazz, soul jazz, lounge jazz, acid jazz, Cowboy Surf Jazz - it's all good. It's a good idea to get the right tonal tool for the job, whatever that may be.
When I play jazz standards, I prefer the tone of a hollow, carved archtop guitar, played either acoustically with Monel roundwounds, or electrically with flatwounds run through a neck pickup (P-90, Dearmond, humbucker, mini-humbucker - all good) with the tone all the way UP, directly to an open-backed tube amp combo (I have a fondness for Unimusic-era Ampegs) adjusted to fit the room. I do this because, as mentioned above, they "provide me with a sound and a feel that no solid-body guitar can ever come remotely close to approximating."
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Just played a few LP's today through a Twin RI and then a Bassman 59 RI and I found the tone quite nice. Different than a hollowbody for sure, but still I like it a lot. I've been playing my Ibanez AXS32 through my Twin at home because my Hofner HI-5/floater is pretty loud acoustically and for me to hear the electric tone over the acoustic volume I worry might be offensive to my neighbors and I like where I live so I've been using the solid body. The LP solved my one issue I have w/ my Ibanez in that there's just that hint of brightness and definition from the maple cap that my guitar can't get since it's a solid block of mahogany. That difference is very subtle though and I can live with my Ibanez since it cost about a tenth of a decent LP. Love those old school fat LP necks though.
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Originally Posted by Broyale
If we're dissecting tones, it must be noted that his axe had single-coils.
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if you insist on doing this sort of thing, upgrading the the neck pup, pots, caps, and bridge would be my suggestion. maybe "carefully selected" would be a better way of putting it than "upgrade".i suggest you do all that anyway, but the les paul becomes something lovely indeed with a callaham bridge. you can really hear it in the cleans.
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I have one of the 50s Tribute models with humbuckers. Plays and sounds great. I can get a nice jazz tone on the neck pickup for sure, though I don't generally use it for traditional jazz. I do use it for funk, fusion, rock, etc. Originally Posted by larry graves
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I had a Les Paul Studio once. It was a very nice guitar, probably the smoothest playing/sounding instrument I've owned. I sold it because I always felt like I was playing a very nice piece of furniture that had strings strung across it
I'm really a Fender man, and picking up up a Strat or Tele always feels like grabbing hold of something living that's struggling to get free. Ya gotta kinda fight 'em to get 'em to give up the goods, whereas an LP just seems polite and compressed. Of course, to each their own!
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