Using a Gibson Les Paul for Jazz

[Rmcali2]

I have found the LP Studio has a great sound for single note runs and soloing but it a bit treble heavy and thin when playing chords.

[stevedenver]

fwiw -its Lester Polfus-one 's'
also known as Rubarb Red at on time

les pauls are great guitars-period
i have more than a few, of various eras-
the seventies are excellent guitars-imho
i have a 72, 74 and 79 that are all great-well made, top wood, necks, and sound great too-each a different model with different pups


in fact i don think there are bad eras-
but gibson is a factory, and that means qc varies a lot-labor and wood

a standard faded is a great guitar

maple necks are very stable, and stiff-good things-they do , imho, add brightness-and may make a guitar a bit neck heavy-
oddly its my maple necked 79 LP Artist i most use and love for jazz....., next the 72 Recording guitar


they are inho the muscle car of electrics, but can be nicely dialed back and
with good pick ups sound superb clean
flats can help with more rapid decay- but only a bit-
nylon saddles might also help a bit
but they do sustain for days-relative to a jazz box
otoh, no feedback issues unless you want them-ie lots of gain and volume-and thats nice too!!!!!!!

i think the standard has pro burstbuckers, a great pick up-


not much else to say, other than like all guitars, you may need to adjust and set up the guitar, and more than once for a new instrument as it settles, and nuts can be hit or miss with gibson-nothing a swipe with a fret file cant cure

the newest ones seem to have great pots, caps, and are pleked, all of which are pluses in my book-but this may result in the excess treble


for treble heavy-
presuming youve tried the tone controls

ill bet the pups need to be adjusted-not only in height-but also a bit more on the bass and a bit less on the treble???and, pole pieces-these can make a huge difference-mark the original screw postion on a card-the adjust in 1/4 turns-up for more signal , down for less, listen to each string for balance-it takes a bit of time

then
consider either the caps-which can make a guitar go from shrill and piercing to round and sweet, pots, or pick ups-i dont have any lesters that i think of as too trebly-the thing to do is to make sure you like the tone circuit and its components-it really does make a big difference-RS guitarworks makes a set of new pots and caps that might help with this-i like hovland oil in paper .22-sweet celar, not piercing


and....i would never swap and be tele-less.....keep it and get a LP too!

[Nuff Said]

fwiw -its Lester Polfus-one 's'
also known as Rubarb Red at on time

Do you prefer a short or long Tenon joint in the LP neck?

And, which one of these joint will break the easiest?

Nuff

[mr. beaumont]

Neither, Les Paul's break at the headstock.

[mr. beaumont]

The headstock crack was a bit of cheap shot...I know...but the truth is, I've only seen two guitars in my life with a crack at the headstock--and both were Les Pauls.

[PTChristopher]

Lots of Pauls out there.

Lots of serious mass.

Lots of weak-o-sity in the headstock-to-neck area on a mahogany neck (and the grain direction, and the routed out area for the truss nod rut- or truss rod nut).

Equals - poster Guitar for headstock breaks.

The only more ill-conceived headstock was the original Dean guitars with the mahogany neck and headstock - with the absurd headstock wings. They would break if someone sneezed in the building.

Chris

[Nuff Said]

When I was a young teenager I thought "les Paul" were French as in "The Paul".

True
eNuff

[PTChristopher]

And Gibson came out with a line of budget solid mahogany guitars called, "The Paul", "The SG", and (I think) "The 335" (no, really - a sort of scaled down 335 shape made of solid ma'hog).

They were like the "Firebrand Series" or something, with burned-in logos on the headstocks.

[stevedenver]

longer tenons-
i have several short, two transition-literally half in between, and about five long-

the long tenons seem to couple with the body best and makes the guitar and neck stiffer as a whole-this adds complexity and overtones it seems
they are also harder to fit and glue, as well as angle-it takes a far more precise pocket and tenon fit-might add to sustain too, but with an LP its simply over kill -sorta!

not unlike a fender with a really tight pocket and one thats not too tight-it changed not only sustain, but the stiffness between neck and body

no, i couldnt tell you by listening, but i could possibly by playing and feeling the gutiar against my body-all i can say is i wasnt a believer until i did a side by side and it really is a better feature, for which one pays

as for the headstock
its a guitar, not a sledge hammer-like many things, they need care, not gig bags -a fender will survive a fall, a martin might, a guitar with a 7-9 lbs on, as mentioned a thinner neck /headstock connection-not so much

the fact that no one has mentioned, is, its pretty much the same on all gibsons, and i never hear complaints about other models-the fact is that if you have a mahog neck with an angle at the headstock and a truss rod-its pretty much all the same-gibson or not-i think if you play a lp without strap locks, knock it off the guitar stand, etc, that considerable body certainly adds to the issue-my point is , that there is nothing inherently faulty or problematic with the LP neck and headstock-you simply cannot drop it, just like a crystal goblet, tube amp or a nice mechanical watch, etc

i have one rather scarce lp that i purchsed with a headstock repair-other than resale $$$$, its good as new-not that this is something to seek, as quality of repairs can vary a lot


in the 70s and early early 80s gibson, to avoid warranty work, made the 'volute'-a thickened portion behind the nut, the area where the neck had the least wood
-it didnt work and didnt fix the issue much-i have some of these-they are also fine-they also changed the headstock angle to attempt to add more grain as well, have one of these, ...im told, but cant hear, that the break angle can affect string tension...fine with me...i like mine
although some have disdain for both the headstock angle and volutes simply becuase they vary from the original 50s design


you want combat/travel proof-go fender-or at least, a maple neck
frankly this sounds like you dont want a spruce top-go lam-they atronger and more stable .etc
they are what they are, and there are pros and cons
they are fun to play-not the best for sitting imho, but certainly not bad-i switch between classical and flat top positions depending on me and what im playing



however.....i think an LP with a maple necks probably would survive a modest crash,but im not going to test for all of you.....
im pretty darn careful with mine to avoid this type of thing-if they arent in my hands -they are in the case

as for jazz, there is no question there are better choices-but an Lp will work
i, however, chose to buy an archtop specifically to play jazz, and i hear a huge and pleasant difference- if that tells you much (other than i like guitars)

[Franz 1997]

There's always the ''les paul for grownups'', as archtop.com patronisingly describes it - the benedetto benny, which itself seems a rip-off of the 80s Gruhn guild nightbird. A part-hollow, les paul shaped guitar.

That up-itself description annoys me every time I read it... Anyway, they are more ''acoustic'' whilst still having that groovy shape. And lighter. Not arch top city, but quite acceptable for jazz. Dunno about the neck tenon though..

[PTChristopher]

>>> [Les paul for grownups] That up-itself description annoys me every time I read it.

Understandable - both the description, and the annoying aspect to it.

I will not bore the thread with details, but the incredibly dopey experiences - repeated in quantity - I have had with Les Pauls and their owners (who experience more non-existent things than alien abduction "survivors") makes it hard to take them (the guitars) as seriously as they maybe deserve.

So a "grownup" version would have appealed to me even when I was 19 - just to escape the vibe.

(Now I promise to not react if anyone says that "they read" how head angle changes string tension. No, really I promise to behave,...)

Chris

[Franz 1997]

I remember being wholly at one with my black LP Custom, decades ago..so cool. Sustained for hours, weighed a ton. Vibe in buckets..You must have been very grown up at 19, Chris.

Whaddya mean, it doesn't affect string tension? The catalogue said so!!!
Go on - you know you want to

[PTChristopher]

Truly a great guitar, which can be forgotten in the fog of opinion and cultural issues.

It was conceived as a guitar specifically designed for amplification, with no reported regard for "acoustic" performance. A log with some panache and visual appeal. Pickups were what they had at the time, then what they had that did not hum so much.

It worked.

Like the Strat, it had an appeal beyond its original intent. Which happens often enough.

Chris

EDIT: I edited my opinion on the origin of the Paul here. I think I made a leap into ideas that have no record of being part of the origin, which was sloppy on my part.

[PTChristopher]

>>> appeared to perfect the solid electric guitar on their first or second attempts.

Well I think it may be that the sensibilities of electric guitars organized themselves around what was there at that time.

So a Strat was a simple attempt to add features, playability, and comfort to the existing sound generator from Fender. Style was part of the design at least in the headstock, but things like the extended upper bout on the bass side were a matter of improved balance when on a strap. (But this is probably best seen as self-serving revisionist interpretation of Leo Fender sparse commentary on my part.)

And the P-90 and PAF have all sorts of dew-eyed love attached to their simple wish to just get the job done.

Sensibilities came after the beloved objects, and adjusted themselves to them. To some extent anyway,...

EDIT: Deleted intemperate anthropological comment.

Chris

[stevedenver]

guitarists are imho a very conservative traditional lot
they want what they saw the other guy who played well was playing...

LP as i understand his story, wanted a feedback proof guitar, which would allow him to be a featured solosit in big bands

later with mary ford, he chose low z pups to allow his multi layer tracking to avoid noise inherent in standard z pick ups (those low z pups are at best, an acquired taste, trust me-verstaile, sometimes sterile, but oddly -on the neck with the trebvle rolled back, sounds kinda archtoppy

and there are carved out LPs-thewse are actually rather pricey historics with chambers and a solid area under the bridge
-different from the 'weight relief' swiss cheese holes-sort of a three chambered version
-and those sound great-and different from a reg LP-(not unlike the benny)
best part are these chambered versions are not only woody sounding but much lighter

[Al_F]

Man, its a great guitar but it comes with so much 'baggage' branding wise, even more than a Stratocaster. It's funny how solid body guitars have been type cast, semi's & hollows not so much.

Related, watching Albert King play a flying Vee is always a bit of 'dog leg' for me but then he sounds so good, & its cool to see a blues player jam something different.

[CaseyW]

I have a 2011 studio pro faded. Weight I don't think is an issue where nearly all new LP models are now chambered with hollow spaces in the body. It is fun to play and the tone is versatile where push-pull volume knobs split the coils on burst bucker pros. To me it's a very good value for the money and a keeper, of course I'm still looking for the right archtop also.

[feet]

i was playing my lester polfus rock music guitar through an ac15hw and i was once again reminded about what an awesome guitar it is. properly outfitted (can't stress that part enough), i think you can play damn near anything you want on it and have it sound great. even this "jazz" music i hear so much about here. i jumped the channels, put on a little reverb (and a smidge from the overdrive pedal, to liven things up), fiddled with the tone knob and that was it. i was there.

so there it is. i just think it is a great clean guitar. does anyone here feel strongly about the matter, one way or the other?

*to be fair, i should note that a les paul isn't the first thing i reach for if a need a clean sound, or a jazz sound, for that matter. i do have more "appropriate" things, and i use the les paul primarily to hurt people and smaller animals.

[robertm2000]

The weight has always been the dealbreaker on the Les Paul for me. With the Gibson hollow jazzboxes, it's the size. The sound those guitars get, obviously, can be the Holy Grail for guitar players. But the cost is another obstacle for a lot of Gibsons.

[JazzyJim]

I've played an LP style Tokai Love Rock for years and while it has never has the best cleans of any guitar i've owned, it can sound great in a lot of settings. I was doing a series of Les Paul "tribute" (it wasn't really, but that's the most appropriate word I can use) gigs and I got closest to his sound after I put a cheap, low-output HB-sized P90 in the neck. I also started using lighter roundwounds on it - really sounded good, so i've kept it set up like that. I don't play it often these days, I think I just prefer the feel of a hollowbody and my Tokai weighs a ton, but I know I could take it to most gigs and get a usable sound from it, definitely.

If you can do the set sitting down, they're great! One of my bucket list guitars is a black 50's LP Custom (or Reissue/copy thereof) with black P90's - the Lou Pallo look is very attractive, I think.

[Jazzman301]

I dare say someone like Ulf Wakenius would agree that a LP or LP like guitar is very suitable for jazz.

Skylark

Angel Eyes

Jack Pearson(he plays a bit more substantial stuff around the 3:50 mark)

Lots of great jazz tones to be had.

'Mike

[Steve Z]

I play my early '70s Les Paul Custom Black Beauty (fretless wonder) a lot for clean jazz... albeit sitting down. At 10 lbs that thing is a beast. I can't believe I use to wear it with a strap all the time through out Junior High school throughout my teens. Crazy things we do as kids I guess.

Still love the guitar.

[Woody Sound]

Slip a wooden saddle onto the posts, put on some heavier strings, and a LP sounds absolutely fab for jazz.

[monkmiles]

I practice alot at home with my Les Paul when I need to be quiet (which is often) through a headphone amp. Rolling the tone down on the neck pickup can get a good jazz tone. I've always though of a Les Paul as one of the most versatile solid bodies there is.

[larry graves]

Just bought a LP. 60s tribute with soap bars, love it! It's lighter than my standard plays like a dream, you know what it looks like a jazz guitar. But hey! Gibson invented the guitar, didn't they?.....L..