Too much guitar gear an expensive distraction?

[Cunamara]

Memory fails me $15000. see below article
Jazz Articles: Nir Felder: Putting Musical Storytelling Ahead of Chops - By Zach Hindin ? Jazz Articles

Hmm, went to YouTube to check Nir Felder out. The Small's gig sounded like Grateful Dead space jams from 30 years ago. Not the first time I have noted this... A lot of current jazz sounds a lot like old Dead (say, ca 1977).

[Cunamara]

If you mean literally $100 vs $5k, OK, sure, it's going to be pretty hard to find a $100 archtop that sounds and plays well enough to satisfy and "inspire" a good jazz player, but it's not a given that the $5k guitar provides better sound and inspiration than the $750 or $1000, or $1500 instrument. I mean just go out to a club or look at name players on youtube -- there's all kinds of great music being made by people on moderately-priced instruments they choose to keep playing. It's not just a matter of diminishing returns -- it's a matter of what a person prefers, and preferences are inherently idiosyncratic. So I reject the generalization that good players sounds better on more expensive guitars.

John

The ES-175 was an inexpensive student grade guitar originally, lest we forget. There were a couple of players who managed to sound passable on those.

[Hep To The Jive]

Hmm, went to YouTube to check Nir Felder out. The Small's gig sounded like Grateful Dead space jams from 30 years ago. Not the first time I have noted this... A lot of current jazz sounds a lot like old Dead (say, ca 1977).

I noticed theres a sizable neo hippie movement in Brooklyn recently. It's worrisome. The noodling is back!

[Stringswinger]

The ES-175 was an inexpensive student grade guitar originally, lest we forget. There were a couple of players who managed to sound passable on those.

Untrue. The 175 was a pro grade instrument. The ES-125 was the student grade model. In 1949, An ES-175 was $175. In todays dollars that is $1,760 or so.

[entresz]

I don't think nice gear is a distraction at all, but thinking that purchasing better gear in order to improve the way you sound and play can be a mistake. I know that even few days of serious practice will improve the way I sound far more drastically than an new guitar would.

In saying that, a new instrument can be inspiring and encourage you to practice and enjoy playing more than before. I think we've all experience that at some stage.

[Max405]

I talked to one of my fathers childhood friends about a year ago and he told me that my father bought a Switchmaster back in the early 50's. When word of the introduction of the ES175 "D" came out, it was what every guitar player wanted.
My father returned the Switchmaster and took delivery of one of the 1st 175D's to come off the line. Everybody wanted them. If you couldn't swing an L5, you were lusting after a 175. And the $175 was a lot of money back then. Think about it. Ralph Kramden only made $62.00 a week..

[vinlander]

Funny how that Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2015 put things in perspective.
Some goods definitely increased more in value today than just the inflation rate...
Some went down like computer a Tandy 5000 was 8499$ in 1989 would make it $16,334.26

[Bluedawg]

Yunzhi/Wu are also based on Benedetto designs which can be overly bright. I like Yunzhi better than Eastman, but you would likely still prefer the darker tone of your Gibsons.

So.. if I wanted a decent L5 with a good acoustic tone (amplified and unamplified) I'm guessing something from the 90's or 00's with a floater?

I would have to steer you towards a Le Grand if my experience is anything to go by for the last few decades from Gibson

I have one that I ordered in '93 and received in '94 that has a very nice acoustic sound ... enough low end that someone on here referred to them as a folk guitar .. I guess he meant that Le Grands sound like a flat top to him ... but mine sounds like an archtop to me

I also have a sweet 16 Heritage with a floater and it has a wonderful acoustic sound as well .... I wouldn't rule out a nice Heritage either

I also have an L5 Wes Montgomery that has a nice acoustic sound .... the lack of bridge pickup helps there


I've been looking at the new L5 Premiers with floaters and they are great electric guitars, but the acoustic sound doesn't excite me ... I would like to bring one home and see if the acoustic sound improves with time and playing, but that's an expensive experiment .... so I'm on the fence about the new L5 acoustics at the moment

Maybe a vintage L5 or L7 would be the way to go for you ... I test drove a '50s L7 recently at Austin Vintage guitars and it was quite nice. If you can live without a cut away and don't really need a blonde the prices are not too insane.

[Greentone]

Indeed.

John

If you are going to make small quantities, hand carving makes more sense. For Fender or Gibson...CNC, for sure.

[Greentone]

The best thing is you can donate such archtop guitars to your teens, young friends or students. They will be happy, can concentrate on learning, and even if some of these guitars may experience a rough handling: you have tried to pass on the fire to younger folks.

Attachment 23911

Ol' Fret is correct. My mother and father (both guitarists) did this with me. They encouraged me to play. They also said "for every song of ours you learn, we will learn one of yours." My parents played Beatles, Stones, Sly, etc. I played early jazz, big band, etc. Tenor banjo, too. My father got me interested in acoustic archtop early on.

I have done the same thing with my three kids. My older daughter doesn't play jazz, but she is good on bluegrass fiddle and mandolin. My younger daughter and son are great guitarists. They both like archtops, too. My son really likes Freddie Green, by the way.

We really need to pass on both the music and the instruments...where possible.

This morning, I was at the hospital for the birth of my first grandchild...a boy with huge hands--another guitar player??? Time will tell.

[John A.]

If you are going to make small quantities, hand carving makes more sense. For Fender or Gibson...CNC, for sure.

But not if your going to make said small quantities ... IOW, it's an absolute, univeral law that its impossible to make a comment referencing typos or grammar eras without making won or moor oneself.

John

[dortmundjazzguitar]

The watch analogy is interesting. In terms of the obvious purpose, telling the time, a £10 digital is more accurate than the £3k timepiece. But there are lots of guys out there that that wouldn't be seen dead wearing a Casio.

but then, what's the point of a 3000$ timepiece if you can't even read the clock? *duck*

[Spook410]

If this forum is much of an indication, I don't think there's a great correlation between the players skill and how much their guitar cost. Some of the best players here play tele's and Eastman's while other great players play customs and high end factory models.

[Spook410]

Maybe a vintage L5 or L7 would be the way to go for you ... I test drove a '50s L7 recently at Austin Vintage guitars and it was quite nice. If you can live without a cut away and don't really need a blonde the prices are not too insane.

Thanks for this. There are no guitars to play locally but during my Christmas travels I'll seek out a LeGrand or two and look around for an L7.

[Groyniad]

It's a non-issue. You should play a guitar that makes you want to play it, if it cost $500 or $5000, whatever.

If you don't practice and your playing sucks, it ain't the guitar's fault.

but there are joe pass albums i can hardly listen to because his guitar sounds so bad

[Max405]

but there are joe pass albums i can hardly listen to because his guitar sounds so bad

Its not the Guitar. Its the recording.

[mad dog]

No rules in this game. Do what makes you feel good. Play what makes you sound good, and won't bankrupt you. Addictive tendencies are always part of gear hunting, so I certainly understand the concern. But promulgating some best practice approach to balancing gear lust and love of music can't work. We're all so different.
MD

[Stringswinger]

but there are joe pass albums i can hardly listen to because his guitar sounds so bad

There is nothing recorded by Joe Pass that I do not enjoy immensely....Even his rolling stones album.

Joe Pass (A D'Aquisto Player) and Wes Montgomery (An L-5 Player) are my masters. Neither played a cheap guitar....hmmm....

[ronjazz]

Both Joe and Wes would sound like Joe and Wes on a cheap guitar. Of course, the cheap guitars in their heydays were junk, now an inexpensive guitar has a very good chance of being a completely functional instrument in every way. Joe has more than one guitar that was a dog, including a 175.

[Hammertone]

Selling nice gear is an expensive distraction.

[Longways to Go]

Practice is definitely more important than guitars.
Shopping for guitars is not practicing.
Buying new amps searching for tone is not practicing.

I envy the guys who get one guitar & stick with it forever.
Guitar & Amp acquisition is an addiction, and not particularly productive IMO.
But still I am an addict.

Pedals & shoes are worse

[Max405]

Joe has more than one guitar that was a dog, including a 175.

Can you elaborate on that? I know the recording quality was not that good on some, but the guitars? I'd be interested in what you know.
JD

[Spook410]

Dunno.. J. Pisano gets a pretty good sound out of his Chinese archtop.

There's no reason not to enjoy nice things. There's no reason not to have the guitars you work so hard to get and taking satisfaction in that they are exactly what you want from an instrument. Totally in favor of that. However, I don't think it has such a great bearing on the music an individual produces as long as they're playing a solid instrument.

An exception might be vintage guitars. They seem to offer a unique acoustic quality with unique possibilities. Though, outside of Julian Lage, not hearing a lot of folks taking full advantage of that quality.

[rcampos498]

I have a couple of guitars, a $750 Michael Kelly Nostalgia,a $2900 Eastman 910 and next month I'll be ordering my Benedetto 16-B with upgraded european maple for $12,000,Im not an awesome guitar player,not even close,but people who buy Ferraris normally they're not formula 1 drivers neither,it is just the pleasure of having and playing an instrument you really like.

[Max405]

I have a couple of guitars, a $750 Michael Kelly Nostalgia,a $2900 Eastman 910 and next month I'll be ordering my Benedetto 16-B with upgraded european maple for $12,000,Im not an awesome guitar player,not even close,but people who buy Ferraris normally they're not formula 1 drivers neither,it is just the pleasure of having and playing an instrument you really like.

To the original Poster, If this post doesn't tell you what you need to know, nothing will.
NO one should look at expensive gear as a distraction. Its a privilege.
Rcampos, Great post.
JD