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Too much nice gear an expensive distraction?
Im looking through a lot of the archtops on this forum for crazy money and scratching my head!?
So expensive, and with jazz being such a brutal art that a novice is instantly recognisable regardless of gear.
It was Nirs Felder who said that jazz is half art music, half folk music. And because of that it just doesn't feel right doing it on a $7000 dollar instrument.
I wondered if anyone had any thoughts?
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09-27-2015 03:31 PM
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Memory fails me $15000. see below article
http://jazztimes.com/articles/122918...ahead-of-chops
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Expensive guitars are like expensive cars, not necessary and usually more reflecting a status than a practical need.
It is a matter of finding when it is too much; when you no longer get what you pay for...
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It's a non-issue. You should play a guitar that makes you want to play it, if it cost $500 or $5000, whatever.
If you don't practice and your playing sucks, it ain't the guitar's fault.
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I've played budget guitars and pricey ones. The pricier ones tend to be miles ahead. To some, it might serve as a trophy of personal success? I have no idea, my most expensive (and main) guitar is a Gibson semi-hollow, which is also the cheapest ES guitar in recent times. If I could afford the H575 kindly offered to me by a forum member, I'd be all over it(we'll see..!
)
I agree that jazz is indeed an art form that is somewhat attached to a gritty charicature, but remember that some people substitute other things for guitars. I have a 15 year old Fiat estate with a load of flaws, but then I could also have the Gibson!
The two go hand-in-hand, image-wise. I place my beloved Gibson gently in the back seat, then I jiggle the steering wheel and key at the same time to start it up.
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I have a $400 guitar, a $1500 guitar and a $3000 guitar. Guess which one I play the most? The $400 axe! Go figure. I'd sell the others but I don't relish the idea of packing them up for shipment... but sooner or later I'm gonna need that $4500 more than I need those two other guitars hanging around.
Last edited by jasaco; 09-27-2015 at 05:02 PM.
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AndrewPat, do yourself a favor. If expensive guitars make you scratch your head then avoid them. There are a lot of people around here that like expensive guitars. And they don't like being judged for it. I am one of them. If you want, post things about cheap guitars. Most of us will be supportive, guaranteed.
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I don't think he means to come off as passing judgement. Seems more like a curiousity
Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
By the way, how's the JP-20? Still happy? Should I get one for a grand?
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I´d say if Nir likes his 500$ Strat, cool!
But do the math:
What does it cost to build Strat a on the production line?
On the other Hand: How many hours of work does it take to build a fully handcarved archtop guitar?
And is a guitar builder a craftsman or an artist?Last edited by redwater; 09-29-2015 at 01:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by Marwin Moody
I've played budget guitars and pricey ones. The pricier ones tend to be miles ahead. To some, it might serve as a trophy of personal success? I have no idea, my most expensive (and main) guitar is a Gibson semi-hollow, which is also the cheapest ES guitar in recent times. If I could afford the H575 kindly offered to me by a forum member, I'd be all over it(we'll see..! )
I agree that jazz is indeed an art form that is somewhat attached to a gritty charicature, but remember that some people substitute other things for guitars. I have a 15 year old Fiat estate with a load of flaws, but then I could also have the Gibson! The two go hand-in-hand, image-wise. I place my beloved Gibson gently in the back seat, then I jiggle the steering wheel and key at the same time to start it up.
Exactly!
I shop at Target and drive a 2010 Ford Focus. We make little sacrifices.
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Target? Oh, yur one a them fancy people.. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Thrilled. Get one for a grand? No. You should offer more for it so you don't kill my property value.. Originally Posted by Marwin Moody
I don't think he means to come off as passing judgement. Seems more like a curiousity
By the way, how's the JP-20? Still happy? Should I get one for a grand?
Just kidding. If you get one for a grand and its in good working order, that's a great deal. Jump on it. Mine still plays itself, every day..
Joe D
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09-27-2015, 05:46 PM #13destinytot Guest
I sold a guitar I couldn't play (solid-bodied 7-string) and bought an inexepensive small Ibanez hollow-body for the sole purpose of indulging my obsession with Benson picking, which I couldn't do on my big custom archtop semi. The Ibanez is a much better guitar than I expected, but my Sonntag Augusta is in another league - and the best 'investment' I've ever made. The right strings and set-up, the right pick and touch, the right amp settings... sheer bliss.
Last edited by destinytot; 09-27-2015 at 05:54 PM.
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Lord help me, a 1981 Washburn Falcon just popped up for $270. I learned to play on one of those. GAS GAS GAS. We need a GAS awareness month imo. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
Ack! Someone stop me!!!
...sorry, didn't mean to derail!Last edited by mr quick; 09-27-2015 at 06:06 PM.
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Family discount. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
I'm gassssssing again. I need a gypsy jazz guitar. I sold my Gitane because I didn't like the way the neck felt after a long llaying session (the ol "numb thumb")...but now I'm missing the sound....arrrrrgh....
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Someone should start a GAS thread..!
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Do it, I'll join it. I want a ElectroHarmonix Key9 too...
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We all have our own tastes and our own priorities ....
The more expensive guitars do tend to be better guitars IMHO ... with improvements in tone, playability, feel, and beauty
Whether these improvements are worth the extra cash depends on your personal tastes, priorities and financial situation
And the more money you spend the smaller and more subtle the improvements are .... our old friend diminishing returns
And of course some guitars are more expensive because of the name on the headstock .... I have a hard time believing Montelleone's guitars are really worth $75K or more ... but of he can get that much for them, then more power to him .... and if $75K was like pocket change to me I might have an order in myself
If you're not spending $5K or $10K on a nice jazz guitar because you would miss the payments on your Harley or Corvette then you've decided a nice motorcycle or car is more important than a nice guitar .... some of us are lucky enough to have this choice and we've chosen to spend our cash on a few nice guitars rather than a motorcycle or speed boat ... or a second home etc.
If you have the disposable income and you just chose not to spend $1K or more on a nice jazz guitar then that's your choice .. and I think you're really missing out on some nice experiences ...
If you're not spending $5K or even $3K on a nice jazz guitar because you would miss payments on your rent or your kid would miss a meal then you are being wise IMHO ... hang in there and I hope you will be in a situation where you can bring something nice home someday
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Two unavoidable steps in learning to be a jazz player are learning the language and repertoire. Of course, given that, you actually have to have something to say. But in the process of learning, that will likely take care of itself.
For this a good teacher and cheap guitar are absolute necessities. You need a telecaster. The ones from Mexico are a good choice if you don't mind the nut width. You also need a good value, quality amp. Roland cube. This will show your peers that you are focused on the music and have not been distracted by the shiny bits.
As for the silly-expensive stuff, don't worry about it one way or another. This stuff gets less expensive every day because in the end it's how well a tool meets a function and there are more good inexpensive guitars available today than there has ever been. Of course, there are exceptions. Vintage instruments, boutique builders, and custom luthier guitars. For now, these can't be reproduced in a factory. Good reason to study software and engineering.
So, take your time. Music first, gear second. Understand how the material and workmanship of guitars actually serve the function and know yourself. I like BMW's because of what they do. But, as I'm a pragmatist, if I could buy something at 1/5 the price that does the same thing, I would.
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Blue.. I have great respect for your thoughts and always find you offer great insights. Still, I continue to find this baffling. I could buy any guitar this side of sane.. even a few that aren't. However, every time I play current models I come away not getting it. Maybe it's because I do my own setups and minor modifications so I don't have to put up with the foibles or electronics of inexpensive factory guitars. Still, if there is a batch of guitars in the $5K - $10K range that offers an experience above and beyond a $1000 Yunzhi, I'm not finding them. Maybe you guys always get there before me and snatch them all up. Flat tops are another matter, but in archtops, the ones I've played (even up to $15K Benedetto's) don't seem to offer anything significantly better in terms of tone or playability. Originally Posted by Bluedawg
Not looking to argue with those that get their hackles up on this topic.. just trying to understand what I'm missing. If I could find something that was a step above, I'd buy it.Last edited by Spook410; 09-27-2015 at 06:51 PM.
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The guitar every serious player deserves is the instrument that inspires and challenges them to keep growing as a musician. Now that our kids are out of college and married, I've been able to buy a good semi hollowbody and a great sounding full hollowbody archtop. Every time I play them I am inspired to do better... to learn more. Will I ever be able to buy a good WesMo or Super 400? Probably not. I just hope I can one day play up to the quality of instruments and gear I already have. It is SO MUCH FUN!
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Lord knows ow many guitars I've owned over the years, not to mention the hundreds that we built and one thing I've come to believe is that there's no a specific or consistent correlation between value and the pleasure they've given me. I've had expensive guitars that were magnificent and others not so much. I've had inexpensive guitars that were fabulous and others not so much. In the world of archtops, I would consider my Heritage to be a middle of the pack in value and it's one of the most enjoyable guitars (for me) that I've ever played but I also enjoyed my $500 Ibanez and loved my $750 Warmoth short scale Tele (both of which I was too stupid to keep).
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Yes and no. The law of diminishing returns kicks in around 3k, imho. Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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If you look into the past the players didn't usually own too many guitars at the same time. And even then it was affordable as a tool for their use. I think what's changed is in today's society, prestige of ownership has become way too important. The one good thing about that is their has never been better instruments being made and available in many price ranges!
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Mr B
Do they sell 'em at Target ?
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