-
"If you are a good player, you will sound good on a 100 dollar guitar, but you will sound better on a 5K guitar because your playing will be more inspired on the 5K guitar."
That may be true for some people, but the opposite is true for many. There are plenty of people who are inspired by quirky pawn-shop pieces and bargains (and let's not forget that the vagaries of the collectors market have turned lots of $XXX guitars into $XXXXX guitars for no obvious reason).
These days, there are truly professional quality instruments that make their owners very happy at very low price points. If the sound and feel that works best for you is an L5, and anything else frustrates you, OK, you benefit from a $5k + guitar. I don't. I'm happy with a <$1k (used, more new) semi hollow. Objectively, I could not make the case that I'd play better on something more expensive.
John
-
09-28-2015 09:30 AM
-
-
There's nothing wrong with owning one or several expensive guitars. They're not required to play jazz or make good music but if that's what you want then go right ahead, enjoy.
I will say that some people in all hobbies try to "buy in" to legitimacy with high end gear without really knowing what they're doing. That strikes me as a bit lame but really it doesn't matter.
-
If my ship ever comes in (and I am not at the airport at the time) I will get a more expensive guitar. At this time I am happily gigging with a MIK Emperor Regent and a MIC ES-335 Deluxe. I went through quite a few guitars and have settled on these two which, despite the low price range, really inspire me to practice and play. If I ever do decide to "upgrade," I will carefully choose one that inspires me as much as these do. Meanwhile I will continue to "bottom feed" with what I have.
-
@John A. You missed my point. I said that a good player will sound better on a 5K guitar than on a 100 dollar guitar. That does not mean every good player will need a 5K guitar. I also said that the law of diminishing returns is different for every player. Your spot on that spectrum is lower than mine as I have never found a sub 1000 dollar guitar that was a keeper. It is wonderful that you have. I am jealous ( but not bitter or envious)
Cheers,
Marc
-
Your 1st line made me laugh.. I will be using that one. Thanks.
Originally Posted by rsclosson
One thing jumped out at me. There is something about the Asian Copies of 175's, 335's, D'Angelico's and other American originals that should be mentioned. While they are Copies, The ones I've owned had very shallow neck profiles. I am sort of struggling (happily) with this in my own way with my Jp20. I am a Gibson guy through and through. My hands have grown accustomed to the full necks that Gibson tends to design onto their Guitars. When I go back and forth between the Gibsons and the JP20, my hands tend to cramp.
Epi 175 vs Gibson 175 - Epi much more shallow neck.
Epi 335 copy vs. Gibson 335 - Epi much more shallow neck. Not that different than the Midtown Custom (which made my hand cramp)
JP20 vs D'Aquisto - Never played the D'A. I did own an Epi Joe Pass that had a very shallow neck though..
Ibanez Lawsuit Les Paul Copy vs Various Les Pauls I've owned - Ibanez much shallower neck profile.
Fender Strat vs Ibanez 420 - Ibby had a very shallow neck. In fact the whole guitar was pretty shallow.
That could be why so many people tend to prefer the Asian Copies. Their hands are used to the neck profile.
Me, I just work through it and the cramps go away.
I should add, I've owned 3 Eastmans and they tend to have neck profiles that mimic Gibsons. Just an FYI..
There are some really nice copies out there.
JD
-
You are right. I went through several Emperor Regents before I got the one I have now. For some reason, the neck is not the skinny type I expect from this model. Nice and chunky and comfortable. Same with the 335. Somehow they both made it through quality control with better necks. That's why I settled on these. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
-
Joe,
My 63 175 has a skinny neck like the JP 20. I think Joe Pass was used to the skinny neck on his early 60's 175 and asked the folks at Ibanez to make his signature model with the skinny neck. I have played some Asian guitars that had a full neck. I am pretty fortunate, I have no problem with full vs. skinny necks in general (though I do not like ultra fat "baseball bat" necks, square 2X4 necks or 1 and 9/16 nuts).
-
SS,
I think something is wrong with your 175 bro.
I think you need to send it (and one of the D'A's) to me for further evaluation.
Kidding aside, You know, I have to be careful with this JP20. Its all I play. One day I'm gonna come home from work and see it in laying in the corner out cold while all my other guitars are climbing back up on the wall..
Its really good. Thanks for being the voice of reason (and real life experience) on that one..
JD
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
The internet, especially a discussion forum like this, is also a HUGE distraction from seriously studying guitar
-
+1
Actually there is nothing distracting about expensive guitars if you already own them.
The distraction is in continually hunting for new guitars - expensive OR cheap.
-
If I recall correctly, I think the original question was whether too much nice gear is an expensive distraction. A two-part question. It implies that there's something to be distracted from, and presumably that something is focusing on your music. So without regard to the point of diminishing returns or how much guitar you need to be inspired, here are my thoughts.
1. Too much nice gear is expensive. No doubt about it.
2. I don't think it's necessarily a distraction to own nice gear. If you've got $20,000 in guitars and a $5,000 in amps and you play three or four hours a day, the gear probably isn't a distraction. Just look at all the stuff that Metheny owns.
The distraction is in the chase. Pouring over manufacturer's websites, luthiers' websites, gear reviews, YouTube demos, guitar forums can be a huge distraction. Going from store to store checking out every guitar and amp combination is a distraction. Trying this processor and that stompbox ad infinitum is a distraction. Even shopping for instructional materials can be a distraction (as if the next book will make you great). All these things steal time away from playing music, which is what we all know we should be doing if we're serious about becoming better musicians.
I will admit that I'm a sinner. Anybody who's reading this forum is a sinner, and deep down you know it. I guess it's a matter of balance. How much time do you spend on all this stuff versus how much time playing the instrument? If it's 2-1 or 3-1 or 5-1 then it's more about the gear than the music. Maybe that's something to reflect on.
Now that I've repented, I'm gonna go practice. Maybe just for today I can spend more time on music than on gear. I'm gonna give that a shot. One day at a time.
-
If you mean literally $100 vs $5k, OK, sure, it's going to be pretty hard to find a $100 archtop that sounds and plays well enough to satisfy and "inspire" a good jazz player, but it's not a given that the $5k guitar provides better sound and inspiration than the $750 or $1000, or $1500 instrument. I mean just go out to a club or look at name players on youtube -- there's all kinds of great music being made by people on moderately-priced instruments they choose to keep playing. It's not just a matter of diminishing returns -- it's a matter of what a person prefers, and preferences are inherently idiosyncratic. So I reject the generalization that good players sounds better on more expensive guitars. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
@John A. You missed my point. I said that a good player will sound better on a 5K guitar than on a 100 dollar guitar. That does not mean every good player will need a 5K guitar. I also said that the law of diminishing returns is different for every player. Your spot on that spectrum is lower than mine as I have never found a sub 1000 dollar guitar that was a keeper. It is wonderful that you have. I am jealous ( but not bitter or envious)
Cheers,
Marc
John
-
As a teacher, I see beginner students showing up with all this inexpensive gear, and I notice there's a world of difference when it comes to acoustic guitars. All those cheap ones sound horrendous to my ear, but if set up right, they do serve a purpose. Still, even the least expensive Martin or Taylor sounds 100 times better.
In electric guitar world the differences are not that clear, and maybe count more in terms of playability or how well built, than in sound. But of course, there is still a difference.
if I see some great pro player shows up with a cheap guitar, immediate thoughts in my head: ' troubled, booze, drugs, broke!' After all, you play a few corporate gigs, and you get your investment back very quick.
-
"If you are a poor player, you will still sound like a poor player on a 75K guitar.
If you are a good player, you will sound good on a 100 dollar guitar, but you will sound better on a 5K guitar because your playing will be more inspired on the 5K guitar.
Yes there is a law of diminishing returns, but where that kicks in will depend on the individual"
yep, ...pretty much....
-
Well that's hardly fair. If we aren't judging people who play expensive guitars we surely shouldn't judge those with cheaper guitars. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
-
Nope...not in the least...
Gear is gear and can be equally distracting from music no matter how much one spends. One can be disproportionately gear focused with a <$1,000 guitar and a >$10,000 guitar. It is really comes down to the state of mind of the individual and their focus.
These threads seem to unfortunately devolve into haves vs. have-nots" cost/benefit ratio polls that are frankly fairly meaningless. It is fairly simple. If spending more than a certain figure on an instrument becomes a distraction to someone and takes away from their musical journey, I suggest that you not spend the money. But if an instrument inspires you, it can help take you to new places musically which as the "VISA" adds say is "priceless".
My $.02
-
That CNC route is exactly what Victor Baker taken at the DA factory in NYC. Originally Posted by Greentone
Here's a time lapse video he posted on Facebook:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B92...MXM/view?pli=1
-
Originally Posted by kkfan
dang it almost seems easier to carve it by hand!!! one typo and your doomed!! haha
cheers
-
Indeed. Originally Posted by neatomic
John
-
I have "too much nice gear". It's the opposite of a distraction. I know that it will be reliable and perfect for me, and once I start playing, I can forget about the equipment and concentrate on music.
I have cheap guitars and expensive ones and they all tend to sound like me. It just so happened that the ones I really bonded with were the expensive ones (darn it!).
-
I have some really really nice guitars I gig on all of them. My Heritage H575 Custom was the most expensive I bought it new for $2600 and my least expensive is my G&L Tribute Semi Hollow Bluesboy $500. I am always in search of Swiss timing from a $3 dollar watch but I would spend big big bread for an L5 or Golden Eagle a real Dangelico or a custom built archtop. I think it's amazing to see such high level craftsmanship in the modern guitar market.
-
The watch analogy is interesting. In terms of the obvious purpose, telling the time, a £10 digital is more accurate than the £3k timepiece. But there are lots of guys out there that that wouldn't be seen dead wearing a Casio. Originally Posted by eddy b.
-
Well, too much nice gear can also be a cheap distraction - if you know what and where to look for.
Just one example: the 17" guitars below were made in GDR in the sixties, mainly for export. They feature acoustically designed (= resonant) maple laminated bodies with a depth of ca. 7cm; basically 'acoustic' ES-350 or Tal Farlow models, if you like a provoking comparison. How do they sound? Well, only that much: the majority of players are really surprised, some even rub their eyes and ears after playing!
Ok, such guitars need a bit of special knowledge for maintenance and restoring, fret dressings and set-ups; some may need a neck straightening procedure. Bowed necks can normally be fixed permanently without problem, or you can use a spare neck or add a truss rod.
Each of these guitar projects went for under $ 150, since few people know about such axes, respective their at least decent quality.
Are these commy dreksticks nice? Yes, IMO, their sound and vintage feeling is often better than what modern, shiny eye-catchers or heavy polyurethane bombers can deliver.
Are they expensive? Well, it depends... though I'd say a clear no!
Are they distracting from making music? Only when they are in the process of overhauling; afterwards the opposite may be true!
The best thing is you can donate such archtop guitars to your teens, young friends or students. They will be happy, can concentrate on learning, and even if some of these guitars may experience a rough handling: you have tried to pass on the fire to younger folks.
Not only musical instruments... the music itself can be considered as a distraction from the hardships of real life, an extension of human speech and a necessity for a reasonable socialization.
Hence, both the guitars and the music are very welcome "distractions" in life.
Even pure collectors (here of valuable guitars) are said to be happy people - if the rest of their life is balanced enough.Last edited by Ol' Fret; 09-28-2015 at 08:26 PM.
-
Smiles... absolutely. We all face trials or we shall sooner or later. Music and all the gear that goes with it are our allies in retaining sanity and grace. Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
Reply With Quote
Guitar Amps built into case?
Yesterday, 05:03 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos