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I just bought a blonde 1969 ES-175 from them last month for $2300. I just happened to have an old pat. sticker t-top humbucker, and a complete wiring harness for a late 60's 335 in my parts drawer, so I stuck that in the 175, and now it's as close enough to vintage sounding for me. I stuck the pickup in the neck position, since I don't really use the bridge pickup ever.
I had the work done at Lay's Guitars. Dan seems to think that the guitar is actually earlier than a 1969, since the Gibson logo has a dot over the 'i' and the label does not have 'union made' stamped on it. If so, that's pretty cool.
I think I got a pretty good deal, and things like new tuners are actually a bonus for me.
Last edited by Socraticaster; 07-03-2015 at 03:10 PM.
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07-03-2015 03:05 PM
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I didn't know there was another NE Ohioan around these parts. We should get together.
Originally Posted by Socraticaster
I just bought a blonde 1969 ES-175 from them last month for $2300. I just happened to have an old pat. sticker t-top humbucker, and a complete wiring harness for a late 60's 335 in my parts drawer, so I stuck that in the 175, and now it's as close enough to vintage sounding for me. I stuck the pickup in the neck position, since I don't really use the bridge pickup ever.
I had the work done at Lay's Guitars. Dan seems to think that the guitar is actually earlier than a 1969, since the Gibson logo has a dot over the 'i' and the label does not have 'union made' stamped on it. If so, that's pretty cool.
I think I got a pretty good deal, and things like new tuners are actually a bonus for me.
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I'm always happy to run into a fellow NEOhioan. I'm actually heading up to Guitar Riot next week to get my 1962 Fender Concert amp checked out.
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email me ([email protected]) Originally Posted by Socraticaster
P.S., Thanks to you I just bought a 57 175 from those guys for a very reasonable price!
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I have kinda done this by myself - my 1965 Guild X-500 was in terrible shape when I got it and I've changed pickups, tuners, bridge, tailpiece, even finish and neck angle... it's brilliant now, best of both worlds (vintage and modern).
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what pickups did you put in it? Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Bare Knuckle Stormy Monday, love them. Had a current production Classic 57 before but it was a little "meh"... Originally Posted by jzucker
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Wrong thread? Originally Posted by jzucker
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I bought my 63 175 at an auction about 5 years ago for just under $3,400. At the time, a bone stock example with PAF's would have set me back double that. Mine came with all Gibson parts, but the pickups, bridge saddle and case were from later Gibson 175's.
The case is a 1970 (It is actually a better case that the original, and in 1963, not all guitars were sold with a hard shell case. Mine may have spent the first 7 years of its life in a chipboard case before being fitted with the case it now has. Who knows?)
The Bridge saddle is an older TOM (Probably put there by a prior owner who liked the better intonation and increased sustain). I have put a wood saddle on and like it as these early 175's have a pretty good acoustic tone and I think the wood saddle adds to this)
The Neck pickup is a chrome covered patent sticker pup (1965-1972) the bridge pickup is a patent stamped T top pup (1973-early 80's). Clearly this guitar had PAF's and somewhere along the way, someone, pulled them to make a few bucks. I only use the neck pup and I doubt that the tone of my patent sticker pup could be improved upon by finding a PAF for my use, playing jazz.
So for me, a player more than a collector, the parted out guitar turned out to be a way to get a vintage example at a fair price.
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I would like to add the story of my ES-125 (I'm pretty sure it's a 1948, so a very early one) that came with changed out pickup (a stamped patent number T-top bucker had been installed), non-original and newer wiring harness, new tailpiece and tuners. I don't know if it was used as donor guitar or former owners just made upgrades (for the tuners originally must have been very crude ones). And a humbucker can be considered an improvement over a P90 since it's lacking the dreaded 60/50-cycle hum.
Anyway, I like the sound of those old 125s with P90s so I first put in a Lollar underwound I had laying around. I liked the sound better (but not the hum.....). Meanwhile I was looking around for old P90s just out of curiosity. Mine would have had a non-adjustable slugged pole piece P90. Those go for $500 or more!!!! And for a 50ies ES-125 wiring harness with an early P90 they dare to ask $700!!! The same thing would cost around $150 with a modern top notch pickup and modern electronics (with a SD Antiquity for example and CTS-parts, OD caps and modern 'vintage' wiring).
I ran across a 50ies Waverly nickel tailpiece for 50 bucks, still reasonable, so I acquired that to replace the Chinese chrome tailpiece that just looked too new and shiny on the guitar. It made the guitar sound a tiny bit mellower, probably because it mounts a little higher and slightly reduced the string angle a bit. But it looks great! (The early 125s did not come with the raised diamond tailpiece yet, so it can even be considered 'vintage correct'.)
I had given up on an original P90 because of the ridiculously high prices, but to the rescue came forum member Sam Sherry who offered me an original 1947 P90 complete with wiring harness, pots, jack input and the old PIO cap for a more than reasonable price (thank you again Sam!):
I was curious and must admit the idea of having 'vintage correct' parts in the guitar appealed to me, so that P90 and harness are now in the guitar. And yes it does sound a little different from the Lollar: a bit clearer, less mids -more hi-fi- with stronger bass. Perfect for jazz. Both the old and new pickup read around 8.5k on my digital meter. Does it sound better? That's just a matter of taste. I would prefer the ballsier mids of the Lollar if I played blues and used mainly overdriven tones. But the old P90 suits my playing style better, I am happy with it, but the difference is subtle and I'm sure nobody can really hear the difference between them when hearing the guitar on stage in a live setting. I would never have paid $700 for such a marginal change in sound!! The old pots feel very solid, have a nice taper and work flawlessly by the way, and the tall original clear perspex knobs that fortunately were still on my guitar fitted right onto the solid shafts.
So the guitar is now very close to original, except for the tuners, but the new ones are better anyway. It still has no collector's value (as far as that goes for an ES-125) because of the cut-out for the humbucker, but who cares, this baby needs to be played! And she's a great player indeed! I even feel she makes me play better
As far as this topic goes: if you are a player and you happen to have a great guitar (that you would never part with) with a PAF in it and you can make $2,000 by swapping it out for a modern equivalent that sounds just as good........ No-brainer, right? (#runningforcovernow)Last edited by Little Jay; 10-06-2015 at 08:07 AM.
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i have 2 parted out kessel guitars which sound gorgeous and like 50+ year old guitars even though they each have modern electronics and parts. I also have a '60s 175 with all original parts which also sounds like a 50 year old instrument. I don't feel any loss of vibe going from the parted out ones to the original ones.
I could have never bought the 2 kessels without the discount that came from them being parted out.
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So I guess the conclusion is that parting out vintage guitars can be a good thing when it brings them in reach of us players who can't afford to pay collector's prices...... If it's morally acceptable to gut a perfectly good guitar..... I don't think I could do it (but I couldn't butcher an animal either, but I do eat meat...
)
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Yeah, i don't know if I'd consider it a "good" thing in terms of endorsing the procedure but I would say that if it allows you to get a $5k or $6k guitar for 1/2 price, as a buyer it's worth it. IOW, the pickups, bridge, electronics, tuners, tailpiece, etc., have minimal effect on tone as long as you are using decent parts. For example, one of my BKs has burstbucker pros, the other has seth lovers. Originally Posted by Little Jay
So I guess the conclusion is that parting out vintage guitars can be a good thing when it brings them in reach of us players who can't afford to pay collector's prices...... If it's morally acceptable to gut a perfectly good guitar..... I don't think I could do it (but I couldn't butcher an animal either, but I do eat meat... )
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I may be the odd man out but I never buy a guitar that I don't like how it sounds. If I were to buy one that someone already scavenged parts from, I then would buy replacement parts but NOT original parts.
I don't get it... There's another forum where many guys have a guitar on the way to their houses and they are already asking for ideas on wiring, pots, caps, pups and tuners to replace the OEM stuff with. Egads, why not buy an Asian el-cheapo and do that?
I have ONE guitar I electrically "modded" with new pups and wiring, a messed up $150 Harmony ES-335 copy that was deliberately bought to mod because it was so bad. The wiring was hosed, the pups once out were light as a feather, the little magnets looked like refrigerator magnets :-) This guitar now smokes! I put in AFTERMARKET (non Gibson) pups.
The only other modification I have done in the recent past was on my ES-195, which someone at Gibson thought the market was panting for a hollowbody with a trem. Huh? go figure. Anyway, I removed the Bigsby, didn't drill a single hole for the new trapeze and I (or my son after I croak) can put the trem back. Am I the only one who thinks like this?
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i'm not sure what point you're making so I can't say... Originally Posted by GNAPPI
[edit] or, i should say I'm not sure how your point relates to parting out of old guitars and buying them with replacement pickups?
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Gary, you're talking about modding a guitar to try to make it better (indicating some level of dissatisfaction with it I guess), which is different from buying a perfectly good playing and sounding vintage guitar that has it old hardware and pickups removed and replaced with newer stuff.
I agree with Jack: buying a vintage guitar that has been scavenged for parts offers you a chance to own and play a guitar that you could not have afforded if it was in all original state, but still gives you the sound and feel of old wood, in spite of the newer hardware and pickups (as long as it is quality stuff, I would like to add).
Another conclusion could be derived from this all: the hype around old pickups (and caps, pots, etc.) is no more than that, a hype! Or at least old pickups and hardware do not contribute as much to the 'vintage sound' as people think it does. From a player's point of view that it is of course.
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IMHO what can't be swapped on a guitar should be where to invest money
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Lol
Change the word 'Broom' for 'Vintage guitar'......
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Two things are making a market for parting out guitars, people who buy old guitars and want to put them back to original, and people with new guitars who want vintage vibe. Originally Posted by jzucker
If they just put new parts into scavenged guitars the process would stop, if those chasing the "vintage" sound did not buy the scavenged parts the market to destroy old guitars would not be there.
"Or at least old pickups and hardware do not contribute as much to the 'vintage sound' as people think it does. From a player's point of view that it is of course. "
And you're absolutely correct, and the bottom line is the "modders" and restorers are making this destruction of vintage guitars possible.
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Well they might call themselves "Vintage Correct," but they are not that informed. Originally Posted by jzucker
This is not a Switchmaster. Any time I see something like that, I question anything else they might claim, whether deliberate or not.
Vintage 1949 Gibson ES 5 Switchmaster Archtop Jazz Guitar L 5 L 5CES L5 ES5 350 | eBay
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Parted guitars is the only thing I can afford.. still thinking of the GB10 without pickups and harnesses that was on here last month
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It's a fact that many of the guitars we like on this forum--if they are Gibsons--will have been donors for the Les Paul/SG/335 crowd. The comparative values militate in favor of that. There is no point in moaning about it. If a 283 cu in Ford V8 is worth more in a '65 Mustang...it has to come from somewhere. Too bad if your favorite car is a Galaxie 500 with a small-block V8. Never mind that in '65 the Galaxie was more expensive than the Mustang. Same deal, right?
I think jzucker will attest that the mojo in the old archtops is more than 50-percent in the wood. Put period-correct replacement parts on, and you have a great guitar.
I, for one, can enjoy an ES-175, or a Barney Kessel with some Seymour Duncans at a price I can afford, rather than some PAFs that I cannot afford. Let the guy who has a Les Paul that some doofus put a pair of Super Distortion Dee-stroy-eeoos in have the PAFs and the headache of finding the correct wiring harness...wait...that came out of the 175, too.
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Yep. Originally Posted by DRS
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The money you save buying a guitar with wrong parts you will lose on resale.
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Here's one that's intact.
https://reverb.com/item/618472-gibso...-blond-natural
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