-
Hi Everyone,
Last night I played my first gig with the GB-10 I acquired recently. I used an Acoustic Image Clarus with an RE Stealth 10 ER. The sound I was getting was really great and works perfectly for solo playing or practicing on my own, but was a little too dark for a band situation. I admit that I have not had a ton of time to experiment with the settings on the AI with this guitar, but I tried cutting the bass way back and boosting the treble and mids a bit but on the neck pickup it still sounded too dark. Does anyone have any tips on this combination of gear, or tips on setting the Clarus for use with a darker laminate guitar.
I also tried combining the bridge pickup with is set lower than the neck to brighten it but wasn't too crazy about the way that sounded, at least with the eq settings I had.
Thanks in advance for any tips.
Dan
-
05-29-2015 09:03 AM
-
Try leaving the bass centered at noon or just slightly behind, dial the mid control back to 10 o'clock, and boost the treble just a hair to 1 o'clock. The treble on this amp is high pitched (10 kHz?), so it doesn't brighten the sound like a tube amp's treble control. It's more like "presence." And the mids are kinda tricky, so I lower them.
At least that usually works for me. I sometimes use a SansAmp Para DI with my Clarus if I'm not getting the tone I want.
I use a Redstone ER type speaker with my AI, so not too different from your setup.
-
Raezer's Edge cabs are dark. Darker than Redstone or Polytone cabs. Your options for what you have are to try cutting the bass and mids, while boosting the trebles on the amp, using some combination of both pickups, turning the tweeter up full blast on the cab and/or using stainless, roundwound strings. Some comination of these things should get you a bright enough sound. If not, try a Fender Blues Junior.....
Good luck!
-
Any idea if the Acoustic Image Coda or Corus cabinets are brighter than the Raezer's Edge?
-
You will have better luck with the T8-T cab or the RS-12 cab. The speaker they use for the 10" cabs is very dark sounding. There's not much you can do. Additionally, the clarus does not have a great amount of top end to begin with and the treble control is voiced higher than the normal guitaristic treble control. However, I had great luck with aforementioned speakers which are brighter than the 10.
Originally Posted by DanH8482
-
Yes it's brighter but there's a catch. The cross-over is fairly low so you will have most of the guitar tone coming out of the 5" midrange speaker. I do not like the way that sounds for jazz guitar, personally. Originally Posted by DanH8482
You might be better off going with an open back 12" cab. IMO, it'll capture more of the classic '60s jazz guitar tone ala howard roberts, george benson, pat martino...
-
Thanks guys,
Jack, by T8-T, I'm guessing you mean the tower version, right? Any difference between that and the horizontal one?
While looking around for one of those or the 12 inch version, do you have any suggestions on an open-back 12 inch cab? The players' tones you mentioned is spot on to what I'm going after. Warm, but crisp and with the ability to cut, I play with full bands much more than solo.
-
Yes, the tower version uses a different speaker with a higher wattage rating and coincidentally better high freq response. I do not like the horizontal version. One caveat, after Rich was murdered, jeff hale bought the business. JB told me that the speaker cabs were not "right" and that the ones hale was building were different in some respects. Later, jeff went out of business and sold it to another guy. I called them to find out the availability of one of their cabs and nobody called me back. I emailed the guy through their site and never heard back. A few months later, I saw the owner posting something on facebook and I mentioned I had been trying to get hold of him and he said that he was very busy.
At any rate, your guess is as good as mine as to whether the new stuff would be any good.
For cabs I'd recommend something like this with a Tonker speaker
V Boutique USA Unloaded D Style 1 x 12 Unloaded Cab | eBay
Or look for a JD cabinet.
If you can stand the weight an EV12L will sound great in a band situation but is peaky if you are standing close to it.
Originally Posted by DanH8482
-
Jack,
Jimmy Bruno also told me that the Jeff Hale RE Cabs were not the same as what Rich had built.
The only differences in construction in the Wisconsin RE Cabs are the type of plywood and the tolex glue. All other components are the same. I talked with Jeff Hale and his foreman Geoff Felsher (who is now the owner of Raezer's edge) about these changes. They claim that the ply they now use (birch Ply, the same ply used by Mesa and many boutique amp makers) is better than the Doug Fir ply that Rich used. I replaced two of my Rich built cabs with Wisconsin built cabs to get ER capabilities. The new cabs are a tad brighter (which is OK by me, my Rich built Stealth 10 was too dark, even for me , and I like dark cabs, and the slightly brighter NY8ER is perfect for my Gypsy guitars). I do not think the different glue for the tolex would make much of a difference soundwise (I was told they switched glues to make things go a bit more quickly in the build process).
For what Dan needs, an open back 12 is a very good choice. A Mesa open back cab with an EV12L would fit the bill perfectly, and retain resale value. It won't weigh any more than his RE Stealth 10ER. I had one of these a few years ago and used it with my Clarus on a few organ trio gigs and it had that 60's sound dialed it (Very Twin Reverb with JBL's sound). Enough cut to get through the loudest drummer...
Cheers,
Marc
-
Jimmy seemed to think it was more than just the glue and plywood. Some of the speakers Rich originally used aren't made anymore so I know in at least a couple cases there were changes in speakers.
If they're using gorilla glue or urethane glue now I would also recommend staying away because that glue does not hold as well as yellow glue. But for plywood, you would want more than just glue holding it together anyway.
Not sure I'd recommend the mesa. On the one I had, the speaker was held by screws going direct into plywood without T-nuts . It was a bit iffy for a heavy speaker like a 12L. Not sure if they've improved that since the one I owned...
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
I do not remember the mounting system on my Mesa Cab, but it was an old one with a Mesa branded EV and I never had a problem.
Regarding the tolex glue on RE cabs, Rich used Hide glue. I think the Wisconsin guys told me that they switched to Tite-bond. They both assured me that other than the ply and the tolex glue, all else is the same. Rich used a lot of different speakers over the years.
I have two Rich made RE cabs and two Wisconsin made ones. They all work quite well for me.
-
That contradicts what Rich told me. He told me he used standard yellow glue. Titebond is just a brandname. It's not a type of glue. Titebond makes yellow glue, hide glue, urethane glue, epoxy, etc. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
By the way, Jimmy's a personal friend of mine and introduced me to Rich Raezer who I also became friends with and later became an endorser for.Last edited by jzucker; 05-29-2015 at 05:36 PM.
-
Check our the Just Jazz Guitar interview of Rich (from way back when). It that interview Rich said he was using hide glue for the tolex. Geoff Felsher told me he did a few cabs with hide glue, but switched because it was too time consuming. Maybe Rich figured that out and switched as well sometime before he died?
I have had one of my Wisconsin RE cabs for 8 years now and the tolex is as tight as can be...so I doubt there is any issue with the glue they are using.
If there is any difference in tone between the Rich cabs and the Wisconsin cabs, I think it is due to different plywood and perhaps, some different speakers.
While I heartily recommend the Wisconsin built RE cabs, if one can find an older Rich built cab, grab it, Rich was da Man!
-
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Hmmm, funny enough, I actually have a Mesa 1x12 although its a closed-back. My tube amp is a Mark IV head that I use with a couple different cabinets depending on the situation. I never actually thought of running my AI through that cabinet. I guess I could try that out and if the closed-back sounds too bass-heavy maybe look to trade it for an open-back. I'll try that out tonight
Even still, I'm hoping to keep the speaker cabinet small because I also use the AI for pit work and classical guitar gigs too where I need to amplify a guitar with a mic.
-
Dan,
Most of the closed back Mesa cabs use the Mesa branded Celestion speaker. I tried one of those and could not get a good jazz sound out of it. It was way too nasal sounding for my taste. I do think the closed back cab will be more bass heavy than an open backed cab, but try it. Let us know how that works out for you. I bet it will not be nearly as dark as your RE cab in any case.
Cheers,
Marc
-
Just wanted to give an update on what I've found experimenting some more with the Benson and AI. First thing I did was to put new strings on the guitar. I had not put new strings on when I got it so I don't know how old they were, but a new set made a big difference right away, much brighter.
I also tried setting the eq on the AI to extremes just to see how bright I could get it; I turned the bass all the way off and turned the treble all the way, and kept the mids at noon. That was too far in the opposite direction, so at least I know I should be able to find a middle ground somewhere, even if its not ideal yet. There seems to be a certain point on the treble control, about 3 o'clock, where below that the treble has little effect, above that and it really kicks in. Once I got it past that point, I could season to taste with bass and mids. Although I have not been able to try this out yet at drummer volume, I'm guessing I'll get positive results.
I also tried it with my Mesa closed-back 1x12 but I don't think that's the way for me to go. All things equal, it was actually darker than the RE cabinet.
If all else fails, I have a Peavey Classic 30 to try too.
Thanks to you all for the tips!
-
One more follow-up, I just played the Benson through my the clean channel Mesa Boogie Mark IV head into the same closed-back cab and the sound was very good. I have a gig with it on Wednesday evening, I'm going to try to get a recording and post it to see what you all think of the tone.
The rehearsal tonight was for a fusion gig so I was mostly using my PRS HBII, but used the Benson for a few standards. I almost didn't want to put it down for the rest of the night!
-
Dan, I used to have a Mesa Mark IV Combo (with the original EV Speaker) and thought it was an excellent Jazz amp with my ES-175 (though it took hours of tweaking to get the settings dialed in). I sold it because it became more amp than I wanted to carry to a gig. Sometimes I do miss it. I replaced it with a 1974 Fender Deluxe Reverb. While it is more of a one trick pony than the Mesa and is not nearly as loud, my back loves the 40 pound weight!
-
Cool! Unfortunately, the Mark IV is probably overkill for most, if not all, jazz gigs, primarily because of size, but man it sounded good last night. I used to have a Mark V combo, but it had far more features than I need and was way too heavy. The Mark IV head is only about 35 pounds, and I can carry a cabinet separately so that saves some weight for me.
-
FOR THE TOLEX! Not the main wood gluing.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
GB10's do sound great through Mesa Mk IV's...once you get it dialed in.
Lee Ritenour gets amazing jazz tones through a Mesa Road King! But he has roadies to carry it. LOL!
After hearing a buddy of mine play through a tiny Roland Cube 80, I did a bit of research, scoured Craig's List and found an almost brand new Cube 80GX. It is roughly 35 lbs and has tons of tone.
The GB10 LOVES this little (loud) amp!! Can't wait to try it out with the band.
-
it's interesting. I was using a gb10 with the MK II C+ and the MK III simulclass. The issue I had is that the mesas have always (at least the II and III) had a very stiff clean tone. With those 2 amps and a 335 or strat, on a gig and with the master up about 1/2 way, I could get a glorious sustain and lead tone but for a jazz trio, it always had an ice-picky midrange. (Part of this due to the EV12L too)...
As an aside, I used to gig that MK II C+ in DC and would routinely carry it a block or 2 from my car to the gig. I'm pretty sure it was over 60lbs!
-
Jack, I've heard that about the Mesa clean tones, but I guess since I don't have a ton of experience with Fenders and other typical jazz amps I don't really have anything to compare it with. The only Fender I've ever gigged with was a Blues Deluxe from the early 90's and that thing never stayed clean over a drummer, definitely not stiff though . My biggest concern is for it to be clean with lots of headroom and the Mark amps definitely have that, and the eq can be adjusted for months.
I gigged with a Mark V combo for a while, but that thing was over 65lbs, having the smaller Mark IV head now with several different cabinets is much more practical for me.
-
what speaker are you using? I never liked the mesa tone controls. I always thought the graphic EQ was a cop out that they added after the fact because the tone controls were not in the right place for guitar (ironically).
They work great for roots rock at loud volumes though. Admittedly, most of my experience was with the MK II and III though I had a MK IV for a few months and very quickly dumped it.
-
I once borrowed a friend's Mesa Mark IIB for a jazz gig and could not dial in a good jazz tone (It had the original EV speaker). I also had a Mesa Subway Blues that I also could not get a good jazz tone out of (it was super nasal, no matter how much I tweaked the controls on both guitar and amp).
My Mark IV sounded great for jazz with the stock EV (after hours of fiddling...I wrote down the good settings once I figured it out. That amp has thousands, if not millions of tone possibilities), but I tries a Mesa branded Celestion speaker in the Mark IV an attempt to lessen the 70 pound weight and I could not find a good jazz tone. The EV went back in.
A few years ago, I sold a Musicman 112 amp that I bought from my friend Duncan James (Duncan replaced Bucky Pizzarelli in the George Barnes combo). Duncan had replaced the stock EV in that amp with an English made Celestion and it sounded great for jazz, though at 50 pounds, was not an amp I wanted to keep. I had trouble selling it and decided to get an original EV speaker back in to see if that would help. It did and the amp then sold quickly (now weighing 55 pounds or so). Strangely, I could not get a good jazz sound out of that amp with the EV. It was the exact opposite of my experience with the Mark IV.
Good tone can be elusive. When you find it, be happy! The grass on the other side is different, not necessarily greener.
Reply With Quote
“Shearing style”
Today, 05:26 PM in Comping, Chords & Chord Progressions