Why the dislike for volutes?

**lawson-stone** · 07-26-2017, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

I only use stands @ home, except for my regular Fri night gig, where I set it up behind my amp next to the B-3 and Leslie.
And I'm using an Aria PE-180 on that gig, so if someone were to throw themselves into my amp and smash the guitar, I won't have a heart attack like I would if it was my '69 L-5.

I dunno, a PE180 isn't an L5ces, but I'd grieve over mine being damaged. It's certainly a fine, and even rare instrument that would be very hard to replace, even if I had the cash to do so.

**Skip Ellis** · 07-26-2017, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Painter

A backstrap would be a better idea structurally than a volute....but hardly anyone does it...until they break a headstock!

I love backstraps and have done a few on some banjo necks I built back in the day but they're a lot of work. As to volutes, I never had much thought about them either way on Gibsons - I notice a lot of the boutique acoustic builders use that style. The one that bugs me is the newer Fenders that have the back of the headstock 1/4" proud of the back of the neck - it just ain't right and a lot of the younger folks think it's perfectly normal 'cause that's all they've ever seen. I think that the back of the headstock should be in pretty close line and blended in with the back of the neck - it may have something to do with the CNC process but I'm not sure.

**iim7V7IM7** · 07-26-2017, 05:52 PM

Here are a bunch of examples: (Top) Birds beak bridle joint - Two piece; carved dart - One piece; Two different veneered pegheads; (Bottom) Another veneered peghead; laminated backstrap; two simple backstraps.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-26-2017, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by pingu

Yeah seems like using a separate piece for the
headstock would be a better design ?
(If the resulting tone is still OK)

I lot of IBanez jazz boxes are built that way
with a volute too
and are pretty robust ... sound OK too

I think that would help somewhat, in that the luthier could then align the grain with the string-pull. And at that point, it seems to me that (depending on the glue being used) even if the headstock did fail, it would do so along the joint, and make for an easier repair. I'm no luthier nor repairman, though, so this post is worth every penny you've paid for it.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-26-2017, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

Here are a bunch of examples: (Top) Birds beak bridal joint - Two piece; carved dart - One piece; Two different veneered pegheads; (Bottom) Another veneered peghead; laminated backstrap; two simple backstraps.

Another option yet to be mentioned here: a scarf-joint. Rather like a backstrap, but extended and broadened.

**iim7V7IM7** · 07-26-2017, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Another option yet to be mentioned here: a scarf-joint. Rather like a backstrap, but extended and broadened.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-26-2017, 06:48 PM

More like this:

It allows the luthier to better align the woodgrain to the string tension, from what I understand.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-26-2017, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I know what a scarf joint is. It is very strong and used for a number of repairs as well. It is more typically at the peghead where the angle change is. I was just trying to show how a birds beak bridle joint is made...

Forgive my ignorance. I hadn't seen that sort of joint before and thought you misunderstood.

My apologies.

**Hammertone** · 07-27-2017, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

...The one that bugs me is the newer Fenders that have the back of the headstock 1/4" proud of the back of the neck - it just ain't right and a lot of the younger folks think it's perfectly normal 'cause that's all they've ever seen. I think that the back of the headstock should be in pretty close line and blended in with the back of the neck - it may have something to do with the CNC process but I'm not sure.

Yep. Here's the solution:

**Matt Cushman** · 07-27-2017, 09:21 AM

One simple way to strengthen the neck is to simply reduce the size of the T. R. pocket. The reason the T. R. pocket is so large on most guitars is the nut being used. With a standard nut, the wrench must fit over the nut. In order to accommodate the diameter of the wrench, the pocket has to be huge. By using an allen headed nut, the T R pocket need only be large enough to accept the washer. The extra strength is surely quite significant.

**Thumpalumpacus** · 07-27-2017, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

Yep. Here's the solution:

lol, you may be joking, I'm not sure, but a buddy of my on the West Coast has a parts-Strat with a neck pretty much like that. It is a nice-playing guitar, if'n you can work with a phat neck.

**Stringswinger** · 07-27-2017, 12:32 PM

As I wrote earlier, I like volutes just fine, but I think the Gibson volute is mostly ugly (I think it is too big). Reading this thread, one would assume that I am in the minority, but the fact is that Gibson took a lot of flack for the volute during the decade or so that they used it (1972-1982) and abandoned it. I suspect that this group is not a very good sample of the guitar buying public at large.

The volute certainly does not affect playability and it probably does lessen the chance of a headstock injury. Guild had a similar volute to Gibson's before Gibson used one and also abandoned it.

I had no issue with the small volute on my 1975 Les Paul Custom, but the large volute on my 1977 ES-175 bothered me. I have read that back in the day, guys paid luthiers to remove the Gibson volute and refinish the back of the headstock.

If any of you guys love your Norlin made Gibsons with the volute, more power to you. Gibson made some fine guitars during that period.

But I don't expect Gibson to start using that same volute anytime in the near future.