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I have to admit that the volute on my 76 Gibson Johnny Smith makes it even more special to me. I don't believe that many Johnny Smith's with volutes were produced, so it feels like owning a rarity. And - as Max405 once pointed out, Citations also have volutes.
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07-24-2017 03:02 PM
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No idea. I like mine ( Ibanez afj95 ).
Originally Posted by Broyale
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And Kudos to you. More should have been like you and others who have no problem with a volute. Now every time a head snaps off a Gibson, I hope that those who objected to them think: "What if..." Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
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?Don't know if you noticed but there are NO Gibson volutes in my group of shots. LOL. Originally Posted by GNAPPI
Unfortunately the Volute Era for Gibson (except the Citations and Kalamazoo Awards) was not their finest hour...
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I sure liked the volute on my 73 Paul ... it saved the headstock after a drop, redirecting the force to the seam on the treble-side wing, which made the repair much easier and more affordable.
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I can't make certain jazz chords on the first fret...
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I was gonna say, if you have anything against volutes, then you need to check out the headstocks on Mikey's Unity's. The back of those headstocks are the MOST elegant I've ever touched. Transforms the guitar into a true work of Art.
Mikey posted a picture about 7 posts back..
JD
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My Johnny is mad at you.. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Actually, not possibleLast edited by Max405; 07-25-2017 at 10:10 PM.
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Because of the volute? Really? Which ones? Originally Posted by Scotto
Last edited by LtKojak; 07-25-2017 at 12:11 PM.
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The reason for a volute
is directly behind underneath where the trussrod nut is where the adjusting nut is you will see that the actuall meat thickness of the neck at that point is very thin., if you built shit like some Gibson are they are EXTREMELY thin this results in a weakness in that area subject to cracks and breaks.
So a volute is a great idea most Ibanez have it does not bother George Benson Pat M,Scofied or Joes Pass.
Many high end instruments have it. Plus they dont look bad at all.
In case you dont know Gibson dont allow honour warranties to the 2nd owners guitars no matter what the defect is READ what you want into that.
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A few years ago, if asked, I would have expressed a "no volute" preference..
But today it seems I do own a handfull of guitars with the feature, and at least for these guitars, they do not impede playability.
Aesthetically, I've no issues with the volute on my guitars, they seem well integrated (I have seen cases where they just did not look "right.")
On some of these guitars I actually find my thumb anchoring right on that volute at times, and it feels OK.
But what I really had to say here was that the guitar makers, esp. high volume companies, may have a broader (better?) view on damage like broken headstocks than owners. Even a very experienced owner, with hundreds of guitars passing thru his hands, uses anecdotal data to inform his opinions. Sure, there are instrument experts amongst that group, and they can be very knowledgeable on construction too. But a lot remains anecdotal versus the statistics that a volume manufacturer can base decisions on. If they ship 1000 guitars a week, and 2% broke in transit (I'm just making up numbers to illustrate my point) they'd seek to reduce that. And if adding a volute dropped that breakage to 1%, that would validate the design "improvement" in a way that really only they'd be in a position to see. There's not a great chance any individual owner/player would detect that small percent shift, because their experience comes largely from what they hear, see, and touch. I'm not being dismissive of individual's ideas /opinions / experience, just contrasting anecdotal evidence vs statistics that a company might have on the matter. Obviously the benifit of having high production volume does not automatically bring great design decisions, but for things like "breakage" actual statistics count more than anecdotal experience
John
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For perspective, here's a cross-section of a Gibby headstock showing the thinness under the trussrod.
Of course there's sitll meat around the channel, but it's hard to imagine that missing mass not having an effect. Even a volute doesn't cure the real problem, which is how the string stresses lay against the vector of the grain. But as I noted above, it was a help to me, and I know of others too.
And yes, there are voluted Norlins with busted headstocks. And I've owned two Gibbys without volutes that stayed together fine. I suppose it helped that I never dropped or shipped those two.Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 07-25-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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Probably the ones played with the git hanging off the roof while we lie flat on said roof. Originally Posted by LtKojak
Last edited by GNAPPI; 07-26-2017 at 12:47 AM.
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Thump, I thought that was awfully valient of you to cut your guitar in half just to illustrate that for us. You are the man!
But seriously though, I've never seen it quite that way. And it makes a lot of sense to me now. Physically, the back of the truss pocket is dangerously close to the edge of the neck. What is there, 5/16" to failure? Wow. What a great picture. Now I love my volute even more and I feel like my BooBoo was setup to fail.
Amazing.
Thanks buddy.
Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
For perspective, here's a cross-section of a Gibby headstock showing the thinness under the trussrod.
Of course there's sitll meat around the channel, but it's hard to imagine that missing mass not having an effect. Even a volute doesn't cure the real problem, which is how the string stresses lay against the vector of the grain. But as I noted above, it was a help to me, and I know of others too.
And yes, there are voluted Norlins with busted headstocks. And I've owned two Gibbys without volutes that stayed together fine. I suppose it helped that I never dropped or shipped those two.
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After seeing that pic of the cutaway neck looking so dangerously thin, I'm wanting to only get fully bound headstocks on any new gits so at least there's some strong plastic holding my guitar headstock from breaking off!!
John
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lol, I got some 'nads, but they ain't that big! That's something I found online six or so years ago, and mos'def not my sweet thang. Originally Posted by Max405
But yeah, there's mass around the sides, so the pic is admittedly a bit of a strawman ... so to speak, of course.
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The volutes on the Patterson may look a little crude, but dogging his guitars are so wonderful.
Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 07-25-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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That's a sobering pic, thanks for digging it up. Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
For perspective, here's a cross-section of a Gibby headstock showing the thinness under the trussrod.
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Volutes rule...it's even cool and funny to say...VUH........LOOT
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Yeah seems like using a separate piece for the Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
For perspective, here's a cross-section of a Gibby headstock showing the thinness under the trussrod.
Of course there's sitll meat around the channel, but it's hard to imagine that missing mass not having an effect. Even a volute doesn't cure the real problem, which is how the string stresses lay against the vector of the grain..
headstock would be a better design ?
(If the resulting tone is still OK)
I lot of IBanez jazz boxes are built that way
with a volute too
and are pretty robust ... sound OK too
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Well... it sounds like a "big-endians" vs "little-endians" debate and I'm not sure we know for sure if the volute is really effective, BUT the best medicine is to probably have an upper restraint on your guitar stand to prevent the dreaded "face plant".
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With respect, if the dreaded faceplant was all we had to fear, we would indeed be living in the best of all possible worlds. I learned very quickly in my gigging life never to leave a guitar plugged in or on a stand or anywhere but in my hands or in the case. The world is full of the clumsy, the ignorant, the entitled, and the too-blissed-out-on-whatever-to-care to leave a musical instrument unattended. I've seen other people's guitars ruined, and had my own equipment destroyed. Pro tip: they always apologize profusely and promise to pay for the damage. They never do. YMMV, of course, but a few ounces of prevention are worth tons of cure. Originally Posted by CamillusUSA
And yes, I believe a friend's beautiful Les Paul Deluxe with mini-hums would still be a wonderful guitar if it had had a) a volute, b) straplocks, and c) not been picked up by an idiot.
But I guess them's the breaks.
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Amen, citizen74. If the guitar isn't in my hands, it's in the case. I've played in a blues guitar duo for about 25 years--tons of fun. I've watched my buddy's guitars flop all over the stage, time and again, through the years. These guitars are vintage and expensive. It gives me the jitters just thinking about it.
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I've told this story before. The legendary Ronaldo Orlandoni told me that Johnny Winter would bring a Firebird in for a neck repair at least once a month when he was on tour. He was legally blind and he would trip and fall constantly while on stage. If a guitar was in his hands when he fell, it was broken. After Johnny Passed away, Ronaldo called one of Johnny's family members and asked them what to do with the Firebird that he just repaired.. Moral of the story? Shit happens.. Protect your baby.
JD
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I only use stands @ home, except for my regular Fri night gig, where I set it up behind my amp next to the B-3 and Leslie.
And I'm using an Aria PE-180 on that gig, so if someone were to throw themselves into my amp and smash the guitar, I won't have a heart attack like I would if it was my '69 L-5.
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