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As I said, a number of pages ago in this thread, I don't understand why threads about L5s frequent degrade into a series of arguments. Is their something that Gibson puts into the finish of their guitars to cause this?
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
The OP bought the guitar and seems quite pleased.
Enjoy your new guitar (kudos).
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07-18-2014 03:19 AM
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I'm not sure how we resolve this one. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Me and my family frequented an italian restaurant called Nicolino's. The food was excellent and the service was too. The prices were good and the value was excellent because the portions were huge. We loved it. Any one who asked and for even those that didn't, we would recommend it by talking highly of it and take the person with us to prove it.
One year however, they expanded into the building next door. They had to employ new chefs but because it was a new venture. They decided to employ 'commis' so that they didn't over invest. Subsequently the food went down hill fast. The service went down hill even faster and we where left a little heart broken. Our precious baby had been dropped on its head :-(
We went back about 4 or 5 times, in the hope that they had managed to get back to the glory days but every time we where disappointed and as each disappointment grew, it was harder than the last time, because by now, the reality of the situation was sinking in.
We stopped going and the story we told, changed from "Wow you must go" to "Its such a shame, guess whats happened" again to people who asked or didn't.
Two days ago, I took my new girlfriend there and yes, I had told her the history of my experiences pre and post expansion, so she wasn't sure what to expect. Suffice to say, they food was even better than it was before. I had a Penne Arabiatar that I am happy to say, you will not find better anywhere in the world. She loved her dish and although we had starters, mains and drinks, the bill was only £30.
The moral of this story is, yes its fine to give up on something for a while, yes its understandable to be disappointed in things, especially when you know they are capable of greatness. I just don't think that anyone would say 'never' to anything again but you will always have that negative thought before going back, for some time because you know how bad things can get when they get it wrong.
I will go back again but I cant have any expectations now because they have been totally skewed and thus I'm less likely to talk about them and recommend them in the same way. So if I wanted a great meal with great service, because I was trying to impress a lady, or business associates would I risk going there, or will I go to a place that I know is running well like Nicolino's did before for many years?
Its the same with guitars, would you risk your money or would you like to make a safe investment? It doesn't mean people are closed minded, it just means they are limiting their risk through experience.
Sure Nicolinos could have turned things around. The only way I will know is to keep going back. However unlike guitars, we are talking £30, not £2,000 up and the more money you spend, the greater service you deserve. If Nicolino's had doubled their prices and given me bad food and service, I would never go back out of principle.
There will always be another Nicolino's and thank god for that. Otherwise Id'e never get a table and they would have to expand again (god forbid).
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According to the article below, Wes's 1963 "Heart" L5 started out as an L5C. They note that it had two holes on the side of the neck from a previous floating pickup (they say a Johnny Smith pickup, so I assume they mean 2 holes on each side, otherwise it may have had a De'Armond). Also, if you look at the closeup picture, the point on the end of the fingerboard is trimmed slightly and the humbucker is tight against it, which is not the normal position of the pickup on an L5CES. I tend to believe it actually was originally an L5C with a JS pickup, because of these anomalies. Also, I have a 1963 L5C which was factory equipped with a JS pickup and they trimmed the point on mine exactly the same way on mine as Wes's. Originally Posted by Danny W.
WES MONTGOMERY GUITAR
Keith
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"Boy, the food at this place is really terrible."
"Yeah, I know, and such small portions. ..."
We just like winding each other up. Don't take us too seriously.
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yeah, we all know he was a big studio guy and probably not as an 'important' player. Originally Posted by fumblefingers
and while they might not be considered great [which I never said], he released and sold a lot of records in that time, while Kessel and Ellis slowed down releasing lp's.
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Sold a lot huh? That doesn't seem correct either but I'm not trying to debate it. I purchased a couple of LPs of his in the 70s and found them to be artistically uninspiring, while finding Martino and especially Benson to be comparatively brilliant and exciting. I was still grateful to him for his pedagogical contributions however, which were huge.
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please don't confuse selling a lot of records w/'greatness' Originally Posted by fumblefingers
he released 14 lps in the '60s--Benson 7 and Martino 4
a lot of Roberts records were commercially oriented and likely found their way into more homes than Benson and Martino's hardcore jazz outings.
I have most records by all 3 and rarely play the Roberts recordings [though there are some very nice cuts here and there]
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I drive an old Volvo station-wagon, so clapped out that you could throw a cat straight thru it and he'd land on the other side without a scratch. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
A hundred years ago, at the beginning of this thread, someone mentioned the feeling of "having arrived" when you own an L5. For me, "having arrived" means that I no longer have to sell my beloved instruments to afford the next one; as was the case in my first quarter-century of life. Theres a good three or four guitars that I wish I had never sold, and would love to have back. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
And, yep, I'm a grinnin'
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As a shallow Gibson fan boy ... I am prepared to have my biases and assumptions challenged ...
If you all will allow me to borrow your non Gibson archtops for a month or two at a time I will be glad to give them all a go and will hopefully eliminate or at least reduce my bias towards Gibson guitars ...
We can work out a rotating schedule so that I don't have to deal with too many Heritage, Campellone, Bennedetto, Buscarino, Monteleone, Anderson, Marchione and other guitars all at once
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FWIW, every Golden Eagle and Super Eagle I have ever seen, heard, and played is a winner. Do not be hatin' on them Heritages. While I am at it, every Guild AA has been great. The best though had the Rhythm Chief pickup.
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Nothing wrong with a good Gibson L-5. I mean, it's no Hofner Chancellor, but it's a nice guitar.
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-11-2021 at 06:16 PM.
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what can one possibly say?
except
get a white sofa
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Mmm Hofner!
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Ah HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Originally Posted by Groyniad
If for no other reason, this forum post wins for having the most sexy guitar pics.
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I contemplated an L5 too.
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The red hides the bloodstains. Originally Posted by Groyniad
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[QUOTE=Phiberopttic;443562]I drive an old Volvo station-wagon, so clapped out that you could throw a cat straight thru it and he'd land on the other side without a scratch.
Yep! You've arrived . . in more ways than you imagined. Also, I'm also grinning too . . with ya, and for ya.A hundred years ago, at the beginning of this thread, someone mentioned the feeling of "having arrived" when you own an L5. For me, "having arrived" means that I no longer have to sell my beloved instruments to afford the next one; as was the case in my first quarter-century of life. Theres a good three or four guitars that I wish I had never sold, and would love to have back.
And, yep, I'm a grinnin'
I'm also pretty sure you'll continue to derive most or all of the other feelings I mentioned . . as you continue to own and play that guitar.
If I may boldly qoute one of my favorite people . . . me . . . "There are many fine arch tops . . but, only an L5CES, is an L5CES!"
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Well, while pointing out pitfalls of owning earlier Heritage models, what "they" don't, or won't, point out to you is their obvious double standard. Originally Posted by Greentone
Gibson's down period is well known. And yet, guitars from that very period are freely exchanged, bought, sold, daily. As are guitars built after that period.
The history of those archtops is accepted as part of the greater whole.
Is Gibson, a manufacturer, only allowed a learning curve? It appears so, otherwise, why the double standard? That's flawed logic, and reflects bias, or at minimum, ignorance.
Sure, at the end of the day, one likes what they like. But say that, rather than parade your brand as better because...fill in the blank, lest you come off appearing very foolish.
And since when did 5 of anything define anything? With that logic, it only takes 5 Corvettes to mean they're all dogs, and a buyer shouldn't consider them. And in reality, there have been far more than 5 dog Corvettes produced, and yet, the brand has done pretty dog gone good
I'm not trying to be argumentative...just expressing my sense of logic after a cup of Seattle's finest here this morning!
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Regarding Heritage, my results has been mixed but overall positive:
2001 Sweet 16 (sold '012) was a fantastic guitar, beautifully crafted and toneful.
2009 H-535 (sold '013) was a guitar that arrived with significant fingerboard and nut problems requiring nut/ fret replacement/plek. $400 later with Phil Jacoby, it played beautifully and sounded wonderful.
What particularly upset me on the later one was that the guitar arrived from Kalamazoo and was on my dealer's bench before it was sent to me. I was a second time customer to boot.
Water under the bridge...
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I'd not listen to him, for if you do, next thing you know you'll own more than 1....just sayin' Originally Posted by Patrick2
Yep! You've arrived . . in more ways than you imagined. Also, I'm also grinning too . . with ya, and for ya. Originally Posted by Phiberopttic
I'm also pretty sure you'll continue to derive most or all of the other feelings I mentioned . . as you continue to own and play that guitar.
If I may boldly qoute one of my favorite people . . . me . . . "There are many fine arch tops . . but, only an L5CES, is an L5CES!"
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[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;443494]You I like. You have just added a new page to the Annals of Shallow Gibson Owners. I wrote the foreword. Blondes and L5s...I bet you drive a Corvette too.
You won't be selling it on too soon, I hope. Playing the hell outta it is the whole point of owning an L5CES, wearing a grin on your face like the Cheshire Cat who got the cream.
HE who owns a whole harem of L5s will have a nice retirement fund when the day comes to take down the shingle which I hope won't be anytime soon.
The architects were Orville Gibson, Lloyd Loar, Seth Lover, Ted McCarty, Julius Bellson . . etc..Put a bunch of fine craftsmen to build a house without an architect and see the end result. That's Heritage for ya.
The decendents are Marv Lamb, Jim Deurloo, JP Moats, Rendal Wall . . . all of whom are still alive and fully functional at Heritage Guitars today.
The end result? Looks pretty damned good to me from where I sit . . as it relates to Heritage guitars!
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Congrats on your purchase. It is a beautiful example, and I sincerely hope it inspires you for many years and notes to come!
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I resemble that remark. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
… And since when did 5 of anything define anything? ...
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I don't know. But my neighbor said his late model's finish was so rubbery that the guitar bounced out of his lap and out the door...unfortunately for him, he lives on a steep hill, and now hasn't a clue where his guitar is. Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
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Greg: I really don't think it's a matter of a learning curve. When the founders of Heritage started the company in 1985 . . they already had decades of guitar building experience under their belts . . individually, not collectively. There was really no learning curve needed. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Well, while pointing out pitfalls of owning earlier Heritage models, what "they" don't, or won't, point out to you is their obvious double standard.
Gibson's down period is well known. And yet, guitars from that very period are freely exchanged, bought, sold, daily. As are guitars built after that period.
The history of those archtops is accepted as part of the greater whole.
Is Gibson, a manufacturer, only allowed a learning curve? It appears so, otherwise, why the double standard? That's flawed logic, and reflects bias, or at minimum, ignorance.
Sure, at the end of the day, one likes what they like. But say that, rather than parade your brand as better because...fill in the blank, lest you come off appearing very foolish.
And since when did 5 of anything define anything? With that logic, it only takes 5 Corvettes to mean they're all dogs, and a buyer shouldn't consider them. And in reality, there have been far more than 5 dog Corvettes produced, and yet, the brand has done pretty dog gone good
I'm not trying to be argumentative...just expressing my sense of logic after a cup of Seattle's finest here this morning!
What most object to and find inexcusable, including myself . . is the lack of consistency and the lack of quality control at Heritage in past years . . dating back maybe 8 to 10 years or so. There's also the lack of business accumen . . but, that's a whole different conversation.
Heritage has indeed gotten their shit together over the past 8 years . . and their products continue to get better and better . . and truely represent what these people know and what they can do. But to your point . . there is indeed a double standard. We can all point to absolute turds from Gibson, Fender and quite a few others as well. Yet, most don't seem to get the disrespect .. (not withstanding the ongoing Goerge Benson-Gibson nonsense that he continually post here) . . that Heritage gets.
I really don't doubt Danny W. when he claims to have had 5 Heritage archies and every one of them had significant issues. Unlike some who continue to make stupid and baseless claims about Heritage and Gibson, Danny strikes me as a stright forward on nonsense kinda guy . . a guitar lover and a guitar player. He referenced having had issues with the color of a special order from Gibson . . and he also sold a "to die for" L5CES Florentine cut away with a ridiculously fat neck that he couldn't bond with. So, he knows what he wants and likes and won't settle for anything less. Gotta admire that!! Although, that L5CES was just so damned special . . that I'd have taken it to Aaron or Pete Moreno or sent it back to Gibson to have the neck shaved down to make it more comfortable. Marv would have been the guy to do it perfectly . . but, I'm not really sure that Marve would even let a guitar with a Gibson logo on the head stock in the door at 225 Parsons Street, K'zoo, MI. lolol
What amazes me, is that some seem to want to continue to take baseless pot shots *at the current* Heritage guitar company . . even having seen some of the more recent custom builds . . and heard from those of us who commissioned them how absolutely wonderful they are . . in every aspect . . . yet they'll continue to take riduculous pot shots such as "Put a fine bunch of craftsmen to build a house without an architect and see the result. That's Heritage for ya".Last edited by Patrick2; 07-18-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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