Luthier gave me bad news about my Gibson ES-335

[GoergeBenson]

Perhaps Gibson really does send its lemons outside of the USA. It sounds like the proportion of Gibsons with problems is higher in non-USA markets. Didn't Chimera1to1 have a torrid time buying a new ES-175 in the UK?

Except for Gibsons meant for the Japanese market (because those guys are perfectionists), I wouldn't buy a Gibson anywhere else but from one of the Big Four or Five Independent Dealers in the USA. For one, the warranty on it is honoured directly by Gibson in the US, not the country's importer. Huge difference. Second, the warranty outside of the USA is usually one-year long and may not cover the same terms as Gibson offers to its US customers. Third, consumer laws are different. Fourth, the country's importer may not see the importance of generating goodwill that Gibson does. Fifth, you are usually left to pick from whatever stock the importer has. No cherry picking. Buy to try and then return if you do not bond with it? In most markets, you buy it, you keep it. Not bonding with it, not liking the way it sounds are not grounds for returns.

Lastly, it is far easier and cheaper for a US dealer to ship a lemon back to Gibson for replacement than a non-US importer. So, the proportion of lemons seen is consequently higher. Try shipping one archtop 3 times across the Atlantic. There goes the importer's entire profit margin and more. Not to mention that HM's Royal Customs and Excise Office does not do refunds on import duty with any cheer or efficiency. So, importer gets to eat that portion too. The end result is that good or bad Gibsons, they all go out into the market and the importer hopes that nobody notices or minds.

So, GoergeBenson may have his point as he is in a different Gibson market served by the UK's Gibson importer. It is easy to say, it happens that way in the US, it must be the same elsewhere in the First World too. Not necessarily.

Hey Jabba,

What your saying is entirely right, in fact it is uncanaly accurate.

I used to know the biggest importer of Gibson to the UK, a guy at Hanks Music.

He told me the amount of guitars they refused from Gibson was shocking. He said many of them weren't even worth firewood.
He then went on to say that even out of all those dogs, only his company could chose the best and the rest that should of gone back (the dogs) but went out to smaller retailers with less clout.

I was utterly shocked when I heard this but then not surprised because of the experiences I had had, with them.

As for you Patrick, your right I do call BS on the 50% mark, its probably more like 75%
I have only ever had one perfect Gibson and that is my 350T but then that was imported from someone in the U:S not through Gibson.

To claim that I sell turds is one step too far (again for you Patrick it seems, you have a habit of making people intensely dislike you).
Most of the 'Turds' I have either returned or had fixed or they have been sold on a one to one basis where the buyer is aware and has played the guitar.

Questioning someone's integrity is very very dangerous and I suggest you take that back, to not make yourself look like a total ass. Just because I say they are bad does not mean I have specified to you in which way and since you have almost no information on this, I would suggest you shut up. And you would also have to quantify what I mean as bad, which in many cases I haven't done.

I have gone through many pains and waisted postage fees and agonised and sought good techs to sell a guitar if even the slightest thing is wrong and I'm OCD. To say what you have said is frankly the most disrespect-able thing i have heard.

You Sir are a loud mouth and an ass.

Without having seen or touched the guitar you say my diagnosis is BS, yet when the rod won't tighten that is often the case is it not? And if Gibson are making guitars with the wrong true rods, doesn't that agree with my point anyway?

Your right Patrick your loud mouthed mud throwing insults doesn't sit well and I demand an apology.

You really need to stop confusing your opinion with fact.

[PTChristopher2]

>>> thermoplastic creep

Well for creep in general:

(Ah, a non Gibson-silly subject.)

The resins in wood will also creep under load even with no heat applied.

Titebond I is far less susceptible to creep than is Titebond II or III.

In my opinion, using Titebond I for the FB on a guitar is not a likely source of poor stability.

Of course on a classical stringed instrument this would be a problem, where one counts on being able to remove the FB. But on a guitar, while hide glue is a great way to attach the FB, I do not think it is a gateway to Gibson bashing here.

But back to the wood: It also will creep under load. This is why flat tops need resets eventually - not because a glue joint creeps, but because entire body deforms as the wood resins creep allowing the fibers to re-orient.

All in my opinion.

Chris

[vejesse]

From Titebond's own technical bulletin:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...70810081,d.aWw

"Because PVA glues tend to “creep”, or slowly stretch under long-term loads,
they are not recommended for structural applications."

I think the company means to suggest (for C.Y.A. reasons) that you shouldn't use PVA for boatbuilding or wooden aircraft building and the like kinds of critical construction. Urea Formaldehyde/resorcinol is used here, right? But the point is not lost on me. I think you can make a good case that with a large wood to wood contact area like a fingerboard/neck joint that it won't matter. But for guitar repairs I avoid PVA when it's practical. For neck repairs for example 24 hour cure epoxy is superior for a variety of reasons, in my opinion. PVA is rubbery and once it's cured in the wood it never quite leaves no matter how much you try to wash it out.

[Jim Soloway]

In this case, I think *I* can.



My thoughts exactly.

My past statement stands unchanged.



That's the *for me* most likely scenario. It's unthinkable that somebody that calls himself a "luthier" doesn't know how to correct this issue.

Even in the first of Dan Erlewine video series from early '90s (in VHS) this very issue is addressed, on a '68 Gibson LP Custom that a customer brought to be evaluated if it was worth buying.

STEWMAC.COM - Dan Erlewine's Maintenance & Setup for Electric Guitars and Basses

Here! In the second picture from the left, that's exactly what I was talking about.

Your Honor, I rest my case!

The problem with your logic is that it is based entirely on a few comments made in recollection by one person. You have no way to know if those comments are either accurate or complete and you are passing judgement on someone's professional competence in a manner which now, thanks to the power of the web, becomes part of the permanent record without the technician involved even getting a chance to respond to your accusations. I believe there is a real problem with that, YMMV

[Patrick2]

+1. That is what I am afraid of but do not have the cojones to voice out for fear of being accused of bad-mouthing; it is usually the kid who saved up his paper route money for his first real Gibson who gets the short end...




$3975. Payable in four installments. Makeover Packages .

HA!! Now, that's a laughable statement! My friend jabberwocky wanting us to believe he ain't got the cojones to voice an opinion?? I ain't buyin' it. Heck man . . you've got big brass cojones. I think I can even hear them over here in the USA, clanging together when you walk. ;-) Unfortunately, you're correct about this being the case more often than not. It's usually the inexperienced, unsuspecting and trusting kid who spends his hard earned money buying a turd from a douch bag just looking to sell something he knows is a turd. I'm not saying for one minute that this is endemic to/at all GCs . . or even that it's limited to only them. But, it does occur all too often and at too many guitar shops. The other thing that happens too often in cases like these, is that a new and upstart young aspiring guitar player convinces his mom/dad to visit the local guitar store and spend upwards of $1,500 on a guitar . . only to receive a guitar that's so bad it discourages the kid from ever picking it up.

WOW! The make over packages are now up to $4 grand!?!? All for the opportunity of owning and playing a guitar that one would need the hearing of a Bassett Hound to discern a tonal difference from any other decent Gibson Les Paul when cranked through a Marshall half stack.

[Patrick2]

The problem with your logic is that it is based entirely on a few comments made in recollection by one person. You have no way to know if those comments are either accurate or complete and you are passing judgement on someone's professional competence in a manner which now, thanks to the power of the web, becomes part of the permanent record without the technician involved even getting a chance to respond to your accusations. I believe there is a real problem with that, YMMV

Jim> I know that your comment was to LtKojak and not to me . . but, in so much as I too have offered comments similar to those of LtKojak, I'd like to respond to you, speaking only for myself and not for anyone else.

I recognize and appreciate your efforts as a fellow guitar builder, to step in and give another guitar builder the benefit of doubt in this case. However, no one (that I've seen here) ever questioned this particular guitar tech's professional competence. It's his approach to resolving this matter in the best interest of his customer, the fireman, and his ethical and moral decision to council his customer to just trade the guitar in to GC. I guess it's quite possible that Paul implored fireman to be sure to advise GC of the guitar's "issues" upon trading it in . . . but, I highly doubt that happened.

Regarding the credibility of the OP's claims of what he was told by this tech . . he has openly admitted more than once that he likes Paul and has the utmost confidence in him. Why would any of us here have any reason to doubt what fireman said that he was told by Paul?

As I mentioned before, Paul is every bit as competent as most any other guitar tech in the business. He's good . . real good. But, from what I've been exposed to in my dealings with Paul, when he's done with something . . he's pretty much done with it. That is not a flawed attitude of lack of professionalism. It's merely a business and a personal decission that anyone in any business is entitled to make. It's also the main reason I don't deal with a guy who is at/near the top of the pile in skill set and competence . . and whose business is literally 10 minutes from my home. I think that Paul has come to the "I'm pretty much done with this guitar" . . . . decission.

My only issue with this matter . . and the only push back I've seen in this thread . . was the "just take it to GC, trade it in and be done with it" . . council that he offered to a customer who holds him in high esteem.

That . . is what I have a real problem with.

[fireman12engine]

Jim> I know that your comment was to LtKojak and not to me . . but, in so much as I too have offered comments similar to those of LtKojak, I'd like to respond to you, speaking only for myself and not for anyone else.



Regarding the credibility of the OP's claims of what he was told by this tech . . he has openly admitted more than once that he likes Paul and has the utmost confidence in him. Why would any of us here have any reason to doubt what fireman said that he was told by Paul?

As I mentioned before, Paul is every bit as competent as most any other guitar tech in the business. He's good . . real good. But, from what I've been exposed to in my dealings with Paul, when he's done with something . . he's pretty much done with it. That is not a flawed attitude of lack of professionalism. It's merely a business and a personal decission that anyone in any business is entitled to make. It's also the main reason I don't deal with a guy who is at/near the top of the pile in skill set and competence . . and whose business is literally 10 minutes from my home. I think that Paul has come to the "I'm pretty much done with this guitar" . . . . decission.

My only issue with this matter . . and the only push back I've seen in this thread . . was the "just take it to GC, trade it in and be done with it" . . council that he offered to a customer who holds him in high esteem.

That . . is what I have a real problem with.

just to be clear and fair to Paul, the Guitar Center trade-in was discussed as an option after i mentioned it to him along with selling the guitar on ebay, or craigslist. He didn't just say "take the guitar to GC and trade it in" but it was discussed, along with the understanding that Guitar Center is going to inspect the guitar and might not give me the full value since it has a problem….I'm stressed out with this and it's almost like having to put your dog down….

[mongrel]

Recently we had to put out dog down after almost 16 years of constant companionship. Trust me that there is no way that having a guitar that may be a lemon comes anywhere close. My remaining Gibson was made when JFK was still vertical in the Oval Office and if it somehow became damaged, there might be a small fire somewhere or other household calamity that would reimburse me for the market value of the instrument. According to Gibson shipping records, the factory made less than 90 of my model in 1962 and only one with the features mine has. But it could be replaced. The dog cannot.

[Patrick2]

just to be clear and fair to Paul, the Guitar Center trade-in was discussed as an option after i mentioned it to him along with selling the guitar on ebay, or craigslist. He didn't just say "take the guitar to GC and trade it in" but it was discussed, along with the understanding that Guitar Center is going to inspect the guitar and might not give me the full value since it has a problem….I'm stressed out with this and it's almost like having to put your dog down….

I really don't understand the stress??? It seems as if you've already resigned yourself to the notion that this guitar can't be repaired. The absolute worst case scenario would be a re-neck. But, the guitar can be fixed.

In my not so humble opinion . . you're giving Paul and his assessment way more consideration and credence respectively, than either deserve. Once again . . there's almost nothing that can't be repaired to near perfection on any guitar. Before you put that dog down . . take it to another vet who won't mind putting the time into her to make her well again.

Apologies for the harshness of this, but . . stop biting your fingernails and take action on this! Take the damned guitar to someone who's willing to fix it for you.

THE GODFATHER - You can act like a Man! - YouTube

[vinlander]

in the end it will be a matter of how much and if it is worth it

[Jim Soloway]

I really don't understand the stress??? It seems as if you've already resigned yourself to the notion that this guitar can't be repaired. The absolute worst case scenario would be a re-neck. But, the guitar can be fixed.

In my not so humble opinion . . you're giving Paul and his assessment way more consideration and credence respectively, than either deserve. Once again . . there's almost nothing that can't be repaired to near perfection on any guitar. Before you put that dog down . . take it to another vet who won't mind putting the time into her to make her well again.

Apologies for the harshness of this, but . . stop biting your fingernails and take action on this! Take the damned guitar to someone who's willing to fix it for you.

THE GODFATHER - You can act like a Man! - YouTube

Patrick, just my opinion (which doesn't always count for much) but I think it's time to dial it back a bit. And given what the Fireman's had to say in his mod recent post, I think you may want to revise some of what you've said about the technician involved ... Or not. In the end it's up to you.

[Patrick2]

Patrick, just my opinion (which doesn't always count for much) but I think it's time to dial it back a bit. And given what the Fireman's had to say in his mod recent post, I think you may want to revise some of what you've said about the technician involved ... Or not. In the end it's up to you.

Thanks Jim. Your opinion always counts for much with me. But, I'm pretty comfortable with what I posted to fireman. The reference to The God father video was just intended as good natured fun to try and shed some levity on a matter that is taking more of a toll on fireman that it should be. I'm hopeful and confident that he will see it as such. There's really nothing to dial back. Fireman has been very open about just how much he's stressing over this matter. I'm just trying in my own frank/assertive way and style to help him understand that he holds the power within himself to fully take control over this . . rather than to continuing to stress out over it.

[fireman12engine]

I really don't understand the stress??? It seems as if you've already resigned yourself to the notion that this guitar can't be repaired. The absolute worst case scenario would be a re-neck. But, the guitar can be fixed.

In my not so humble opinion . . you're giving Paul and his assessment way more consideration and credence respectively, than either deserve. Once again . . there's almost nothing that can't be repaired to near perfection on any guitar. Before you put that dog down . . take it to another vet who won't mind putting the time into her to make her well again.

Apologies for the harshness of this, but . . stop biting your fingernails and take action on this! Take the damned guitar to someone who's willing to fix it for you.

THE GODFATHER - You can act like a Man! - YouTube

hey patrick you're in my area, you want to meet up and look at the guitar?

[Patrick2]

hey patrick you're in my area, you want to meet up and look at the guitar?

Sure, man. I'd be more than happy to. I'm not a tech . . and not even close to being as knowledgeable a Paul. But, I know enough to give you better council than he did. I'm in Toms River close by the Ocean County mall. PM me and let me know if this weekend is good for you. If it is . . we'll drill down on a mutually convenient time.

[GoergeBenson]

Never did receive my apology from you Patrick!

Guess that ses a lot about your personality. Throw mud, make false and baseless accusations, then run away without apologising, after attempting to slander someones name and integrity.

Real stand up guy you are lol.

Anyway back to the thread.

[Patrick2]

Never did receive my apology from you Patrick!

Guess that ses a lot about your personality. Throw mud, make false and baseless accusations, then run away without apologising, after attempting to slander someones name and integrity.

Real stand up guy you are lol.

Anyway back to the thread.

Yeah, well . . please don't hold your breath waiting for an apology from me .. 'cause it won't be coming any time too soon. I've nothing to apologize for. Your post #27 in this thread ended with the sentence "Of course, I might be wrong about all this . . . ". I offered confirmation that, yes, you were indeed wrong . . . very wrong. In fact, your entire post was idiotic . . (as was your post #88 of a few minutes ago on the "Contemplating an L5" thread). You asked for an explanation of why I said you were wrong . . I offered you a catagorically structured explanation. There was no throwing of mud or false accusations and no slander. Now you want an apology? Not a chance in hell you'll ever get one. If you don't like being called out for making stupid and inaccurate statements on an inter net forum . . then stop making them.

"Many L5s don't sound great (although many do) QC is not great (but that is the same for any big American manufacturer)"

That's your statement from your post # 88 in the "Contemplating buying an L5" thread. Do you not see the utter stupidity in that statement??? If you re-read that post . . you actually chided the OP of the L5 post for his eventual decision to buy the L5. You even went so far as to suggest that he'll regret it as much as he regrets owning the 175. You actually tried to lay out an argument as to why he shouldn't have made the choice he did. Why would you do that? Why the hell are you so angry about people wanting a Gibson and not wanting an X700 as much as you do? I didn't hear anyone ever suggest that you were foolish to want and to enjoy your X700.

You seem to have a real stick up your ass about all things Gibson. If that's your opinon . . then, fine. But, you have no right to profess it as a reality that all others should/must accept.

I find that the more you and I engage each other . . the more I dislike you. Therefore, going forward, I'll pass on any further exchanges with you. I'll not respond to or comment on any more of what I believe to be highly biased, terribly unfair and grossly inaccurate posts from you. So, you may feel free to bash Gibson, its guitars and "all other big American manufactures" . . without further concern of me calling you out on it. C-ya.

[GoergeBenson]

Yeah, well . . please don't hold your breath waiting for an apology from me .. 'cause it won't be coming any time too soon. I've nothing to apologize for. Your post #27 in this thread ended with the sentence "Of course, I might be wrong about all this . . . ". I offered confirmation that, yes, you were indeed wrong . . . very wrong. In fact, your entire post was idiotic . . (as was your post #88 of a few minutes ago on the "Contemplating an L5" thread). You asked for an explanation of why I said you were wrong . . I offered you a catagorically structured explanation. There was no throwing of mud or false accusations and no slander. Now you want an apology? Not a chance in hell you'll ever get one. If you don't like being called out for making stupid and inaccurate statements on an inter net forum . . then stop making them.

"Many L5s don't sound great (although many do) QC is not great (but that is the same for any big American manufacturer)"

That's your statement from your post # 88 in the "Contemplating buying an L5" thread. Do you not see the utter stupidity in that statement??? If you re-read that post . . you actually chided the OP of the L5 post for his eventual decision to buy the L5. You even went so far as to suggest that he'll regret it as much as he regrets owning the 175. You actually tried to lay out an argument as to why he shouldn't have made the choice he did. Why would you do that? Why the hell are you so angry about people wanting a Gibson and not wanting an X700 as much as you do? I didn't hear anyone ever suggest that you were foolish to want and to enjoy your X700.

You seem to have a real stick up your ass about all things Gibson. If that's your opinon . . then, fine. But, you have no right to profess it as a reality that all others should/must accept.

I find that the more you and I engage each other . . the more I dislike you. Therefore, going forward, I'll pass on any further exchanges with you. I'll not respond to or comment on any more of what I believe to be highly biased, terribly unfair and grossly inaccurate posts from you. So, you may feel free to bash Gibson, its guitars and "all other big American manufactures" . . without further concern of me calling you out on it. C-ya.

Actually I was referring to your baseless accusations that I sell 'turds' as you put it.

You claim I have a stick up my a** about Gibson, well welcome to the real world! Many do and rightly so.
On the contrary your a total Gibson fan boy who cannot stand someone who does not worship them. You always try to rubbish other peoples experiences (with desperate attempts at smears and personal attacks). You claim that others are wrong if their experience don't match up with yours and thus they are not entitled to their opinion.

Your also trying to bring into this argument, another thread (Considering an L5), where the OP clearly states that he was unhappy with the QC on his ES-175 and then you have the blind arrogance to try and use that as an attack on me lol
Crazy!

Your arrogance is outstanding. The amount of times I have to go through threads, where you are being told to calm down or retract your offensive statements is pretty high and its obvious that you are the Forum bully.

To be in denial that large American manufacturers don't have QC issues is another example of your blind defence of American products. Your cars are the laughing stock of Europe, your guitars are over priced (Fender, Gibson) and often become faulty in a short space of time, interestingly with no real warranty outside of the US (Gibson) and your blaming me for noticing this?

I always make sure to caveat my statements with (IMO) or (IME) and that if I am wrong or not sure on something, I ask for clarification. Not a loud mouth to jump in and start throwing mud.

Im actually annoyed that I'm stooping to your level.
Your clearly not capable of behaving in a mature manner. Not to say I'm perfect but I know when to apologise and take it on the chin.

That is enough reward for me. I'm done talking with you, run your mouth as you wish, I've said what I have to.

[Spook410]

<snip>

To be in denial that large American manufacturers don't have QC issues is another example of your blind defence of American products. Your cars are the laughing stock of Europe <snip>

I used to be involved with ISO 9000 and Carnegie Mellon CMMI for a Fortune 100 company. I'm sorry, but you are misinformed on the state of US manufacturing and specifically the US automotive industry. While there are exceptions (e.g. Volkswagen and Chrysler are not doing well) European, US, and Korean auto manufacturers are about the same in initial quality and long term reliability. Which is to say they are average while still lagging well behind the Japanese nameplates. Of course, many of these highly rated Japan nameplate vehicles are actually made in the US along with many BMW's.

Possibly you're confusing the topic with the English automotive industry which has never seemed to rise above poor before existing a given market. As in: Jaguar and Land Rover reliability leaves UK bottom of the table - Birmingham Mail. Oh.. and the Mini Cooper.. they're in the basement too.

Of course, a simpler measure would be equities. It appears that Ford and GM continue to make inroads and if their stock prices are to be believed, they are doing quite well. Laughable? On the way to the bank possibly.

[Franz 1997]

I used to be involved with ISO 9000 and Carnegie Mellon CMMI for a Fortune 100 company. I'm sorry, but you are misinformed on the state of US manufacturing and specifically the US automotive industry. While there are exceptions (e.g. Volkswagen and Chrysler are not doing well) European, US, and Korean auto manufacturers are about the same in initial quality and long term reliability. Which is to say they are average while still lagging well behind the Japanese nameplates. Of course, many of these highly rated Japan nameplate vehicles are actually made in the US along with many BMW's.

Possibly you're confusing the topic with the English automotive industry which has never seemed to rise above poor before existing a given market. As in: Jaguar and Land Rover reliability leaves UK bottom of the table - Birmingham Mail. Oh.. and the Mini Cooper.. they're in the basement too.

Of course, a simpler measure would be equities. It appears that Ford and GM continue to make inroads and if their stock prices are to be believed, they are doing quite well. Laughable? On the way to the bank possibly.

Time to close this increasingly sad thread, if we are getting down to this level.

[339 in june]

At a time, I was afraid that this thread would turn to a new Gibson bashing ....
Fortunately, it only appeared to be a new battle between two individuals ...
But now, it turns to a US vs Europe chauvinism debate...
Would you please stop behave like in the kindergarten yard, and this forum will continue to be what I (and probably the majority of forumites here) thought it was : a nice place to discuss about guitar and jazz

[GoergeBenson]

I used to be involved with ISO 9000 and Carnegie Mellon CMMI for a Fortune 100 company. I'm sorry, but you are misinformed on the state of US manufacturing and specifically the US automotive industry. While there are exceptions (e.g. Volkswagen and Chrysler are not doing well) European, US, and Korean auto manufacturers are about the same in initial quality and long term reliability. Which is to say they are average while still lagging well behind the Japanese nameplates. Of course, many of these highly rated Japan nameplate vehicles are actually made in the US along with many BMW's.

Possibly you're confusing the topic with the English automotive industry which has never seemed to rise above poor before existing a given market. As in: Jaguar and Land Rover reliability leaves UK bottom of the table - Birmingham Mail. Oh.. and the Mini Cooper.. they're in the basement too.

Of course, a simpler measure would be equities. It appears that Ford and GM continue to make inroads and if their stock prices are to be believed, they are doing quite well. Laughable? On the way to the bank possibly.

I never meant to get pulled into an out of context debate on US manufacturing. I totally agree with you that BL (British leyland) destroyed the English manufacturing industry back in the 70's 80's. The quality of their products is shocking. Jaguar, Range Rover (to name a few) have always had a bad rep for reliability and to this day I still turn my nose up at them. To be honest I don't recall saying that English manufacturing was better and that was never the point of my comment in the first place.

We do have some great success stories like for example in F1 (most if not all the cars are made in England, the home of motorsport but thats neither here nor there).

My initial comment was in another thread where I told the buyer that larger american manufacturing has QC issues but that was because we were talking about American guitars. I was wrong to get baited deeper into that topic (by a certain someone) and so am happy to apologise. I'm not wishing to offend Americans, for what its worth, half of my family are from Georgia.

I merely wanted an apology from Partick who accused me of selling bad guitars when he or non none he knows has ever bought one off me. My ebay record is 100% perfect (with comments from buyers) and I have agonised so much and waisted so much money to insure that I never sell a guitar with issues, or that if a guitar does have an issue, Im upfront about it. It makes me sad and angry that people sell dogs trying to slip them under the radar and to be accused of that myself is infuriating, as it would be to anyone with a high sense of ethics and morals.

So I hope you guys can understand and obviously I would like to apologies for any ugliness that has arisen from it on my part.

[Patrick2]

I never meant to get pulled into an out of context debate on US manufacturing. I totally agree with you that BL (British leyland) destroyed the English manufacturing industry back in the 70's 80's. The quality of their products is shocking. Jaguar, Range Rover (to name a few) have always had a bad rep for reliability and to this day I still turn my nose up at them. To be honest I don't recall saying that English manufacturing was better and that was never the point of my comment in the first place.

We do have some great success stories like for example in F1 (most if not all the cars are made in England, the home of motorsport but thats neither here nor there).

My initial comment was in another thread where I told the buyer that larger american manufacturing has QC issues but that was because we were talking about American guitars. I was wrong to get baited deeper into that topic (by a certain someone) and so am happy to apologise. I'm not wishing to offend Americans, for what its worth, half of my family are from Georgia.

I merely wanted an apology from Partick who accused me of selling bad guitars when he or non none he knows has ever bought one off me. My ebay record is 100% perfect (with comments from buyers) and I have agonised so much and waisted so much money to insure that I never sell a guitar with issues, or that if a guitar does have an issue, Im upfront about it. It makes me sad and angry that people sell dogs trying to slip them under the radar and to be accused of that myself is infuriating, as it would be to anyone with a high sense of ethics and morals.

So I hope you guys can understand and obviously I would like to apologies for any ugliness that has arisen from it on my part.

I know that I said I would ignore you going forward. But, you seem to want me to apologize for acusing you of selling bad guitars. I really don't recall doing that. So then, if you could possibly point me towards the thread, the date and the post number where I did so . . and if the comment and it was uncalled for . . I'll be more than happy to offer you a sincere apology. If you can not reference a specific thread . . then you should probably stop accusing me of making such a comment.

[wesmont17]

Paul Unkert from toms river



He told me the SAME EXACT THING about my Gibson L5....15yrs ago....I adjusted it myself, and do so to this day, and I have played it with no issues every day since. Oh and incidentally, he told me he buys Gibson L5's all day long for under $2000.

He's a "prima donna" about guitar repairs (he won't work on guitars from overseas, usually)...

GET A SECOND OPINION! I live in OC too, I would recommend Billy Penn in TR.....Good Luck with your 335!!

[krusty]

So, here's my take on it, for what it's worth;

The truss rod is effectively just a rod with a nut on the end. The rod simply rests in a channel under the fretboard and the fixed end is just a fatter section of the rod sitting inside a slightly larger hollow of the channel. What can happen is that over the years, possibly by overtightening, or simply due to a piece of wood that was used for the neck being a slightly less dense example of that type, the wood at the back end compresses slightly. To compensate, one must tighten the nut a bit more. This process repeats, and over the years, you end up with no thread left for the nut to adjust. To throw out a 335 because of this? No way. It would be worth every penny to have the fretboard lifted and the trussrod replaced, with some extra material at the back end to ensure it doesn't happen again. There are luthiers both knowledgeable and experienced in this type of repair. Refret at the same time, and you will have a gem when it is complete, and it will be way cheaper than throwing it away and buying a new one.

[RoyaleT]

I know Paul, he certainly cannot be called a Hack Tech. But a second opinion might be a good way to go, you could try Billy Penn at 300 Guitars in Manchester. He's on-line and located off rt. 37.